Washing machine cleaner

In a nut shell I don’t recommend them the bosch cleaners are designed for the product and if anything happens using them the manufacturer will be at fault

PS also some Haier and other Chinese made machines had /have an impregnated chemical in the door seal rubber in an attempt to prevent rubber mould……….once again see Instruction booklet.
Nothing is straight forward anymore in a “new and improved” C21st.

Looking at the safety data sheet of Dr.Beckman’s ‘Service it’ product, it has the same ingredients as the bosch washing machine cleaner……………Not at all surprised!
Most descalers will use Citric acid. Mainly because all spiders (the drum supports) are an aluminium alloy on all washing machines
One word of warning: no matter what you use it does not change the fact that old age use can damage the spider in anycase. A thin coating of snowy white lime is fine whereas a thick coating is troublesome whereas a more commonly seen covering of sloshy smelling usually a light/mid brown coloured layer is bad news that has in itself nothing to do with limescale but is more to do with deposits of, well basically, crap, detergent and dirt sludge – this is the stuff that rots out the spider due to attracting bacteria causing a rotted and so cracked spider arm/s which is very common these days of” you can save save money by using low low temperatures all the time” what they do not tell you is the end result that I have just told you!
The descaler I used was Aqua Softna descaler, the liquid lemon flash detergent acted as the sludge removing element effort in the mix. That worked for 20 years I had it, 2 years by a relative before hand, and yes the spider did crack on mine at 18 years old – found and checked me records – still not a bad run as most spiders on these things commonly were toast at under 8 years old.
Plus you can also get stuffed by too much detergent being used. Always seemed more common when using liquid detergents at low temps.

“That brown stuff is the thing to remove. But we can’t see it. Maybe smell.” Look between the back of the door seal and front of the silver drum “gap”. If no yuk there then you probably do not have that issue anywhere else.
“That is what Aquasoftna contains.” It’s just citric acid. Yes I know, that is the point = its a descaler not a cleaner.
“Do you do an extra rinse cycle after or just run it at the hottest temperature and are done?” 60 degrees to really hot and let the machine go start to end.
Amount of multipurpose lemon liquid Flash to use = 2 of its blue screw cap`s worth only. This will froth in soft water (additional point and if so you wouldn`t have the lime problem anyway but you can still have the sludge) badly so would, from my own experience on my old machine, use 2 caps worth with hard water and 1 if you have soft water otherwise you could end up with a load of froth coming out of the dispenser! When the machine gets to hot temperature the froth tends to subside somewhat.
NOTE. Liquid lemon Flash can affect aluminum but I never got a problem until the spider broke BUT whether using my concoction caused it we will never know. Though since I used this method every 8 to 10 weeks (except for when I forgot) for 18 years I doubt that it did least in the very low diluted concentrations used ! Or maybe I just got lucky – there was only me using it for about 12 years of that time.
“The closest I get to all-purpose floor cleaners is Lysol” As far as I can tell it is the equivalent stuff under an Indian brand.

The suggestion is based soley on my experience on my own machine whatever you do or do not do is of course down to your judgement.
If in doubt do not do the suggestion and do your own thing by buying Dr Beckman or something similar.

Since you appear to be from far off distant lands (which you did not say) is your machine a top loader or a front loader?? If a top loader or twin tub disregard everything I have written except for the descaler. However, the descaler mentioned is not recommended for machines with glass enamel tanks – the enamel tank`ed machine (rather than plastic such as with my old Hotpoint WM56 machine), whether front loading or twin tubs of old tended to use a calcuim based glass enamel and that is why.

Aluminum alloy: there are around 8 types that could be used in a washing machine as far as I know for use as material for spiders ( It will be doubtful that it would be the best used in a washing machine but some might / are better than others but then there is no known numbers to back this up with i.e. a wonderous success rate or otherwise). There is a video with some chap moaning and groaning with a Samsung that is not very old with a totally rotted out spider so unless he did something crazy or was just unlucky I can only put that down one down to poor material used as he himself concluded.
As for finding out X brands alloy grade / type used I never asked any manufacturer because I think it would have been a waste of time expecting a reply; it is bad enough getting a reply to something you would expect a reply to. In the trade we are part fitters: spider duff? We buy a new spider and fit the damn thing, we make nothing ourselves and rely upon what we get / ordered. But any information that we learn from the job or stumble upon such as seemingly common failure traits we can mention and that is all you should expect. I do not know if any of us have a PHD in chemistry, it would, by using common sense ( a rare thing in C21st), think that as very doubtful! As for casually having access to LA-ICP-MS ( laser ablation inductive couple plasma mass spectroscopy) testing machine in the back of the van to test offending items = do not make me laugh!!

“These days electronic touchpanels are likely to give trouble within five years”. Well some of them do, others can last ages between 2 machines both make X and same model Y. But in the general run of things your not far off being spot on due to one reason or another.
Conclusion: you can only do so much! My present machine says do not put/use anything on the drum clean programme so I don`t. When I have used the drum clean programme there is a fair amount of froth from soap deposits when I have used the machine on low temperatures (which is not a clever thing to do all the time….which I do not do all the time) this could mean therefore I am putting too much powder deteregent in the machine. Using too much detergent is no a good idea so I am going to have to watch it – I moved from a hard water area of UK to a soft water area so old habits die hard.

andyjawa wrote:“That brown stuff is the thing to remove. But we can’t see it. Maybe smell.” Look between the back of the door seal and front of the silver drum “gap”.

If no yuk there then you probably do not have that issue anywhere else.

What do you make of this? Link to three photos

it’s a dark grime that comes off when wiped with your finger. Someone had posted this on a local board. It’s a Samsung Eco Bubble of around six years. Only used liquid detergent in that machine and they were advised to use the same detergent to do tub cleans. I don’t believe plain detergent can clean the machine.

In addition, Samsung recommends not to use any cleaning product in their tub clean cycle. The reason is it drains whatever water it fills after five minutes. So any product will be flushed out and be a waste. The cycle itself is quite intensive but I don’t think it’s possible to clean with water alone and no cleaning products.

So I suggested he use Vanish powder. One scoop’s worth or 30gms in a Cottons 65 cycle with Intensive selected. Didn’t shift that grime, unfortunately.

I live in India so products like Affresh & Dr.Beckmans while available are expensive for just one use. People would use them yearly and that just isn’t often enough to be useful. The main ingredient in Affresh that does the cleaning is sodium percarbonate. Makes up 60-70{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of an Affresh tablet.

So I set about looking for alternatives and discovered Vanish powder contains oxygen bleach and is readily available and cheaper. No powdered detergent in India contains oxygen bleach. The way to test is 5gm in a thermos flask and then pour boiling water in. If there is oxygen bleach and if it’s viable you will get a fizz to foam overflowing out the flask. No detergent I tested did that even some that claimed ‘oxy’ power. Interestingly, even Bosch’s cleaner produced no fizz indicating it had expired much before its use-by date. Suspect the container isn’t airtight and got exposed in a humid environment.

We only get colour powder detergent here and if you want to clean whites then Vanish is it. Not quite as strong as Affresh but 25-50{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} percarbonate will still do more than not. Can always be boosted by adding extra percarbonate.

But Vanish foams up a lot to the point a mere 20gms of it fills the machine fully. How to control the foam eluded me until I realised that adding some fabric was the answer. So the fix is to use three terry towels or hand towels or mops in the cycle and that keeps the foam below the halfway mark

Now they tell you not to do that because the imbalance sensors are disabled during the tub clean cycle. So if the machine goes out of balance during the spin it won’t be good for the machine. But the weight of those towels is under a kilo and in my experience has not caused any imbalance issues.

Your pictures. Could easily be wrong here but since the stain / deposit appears to be localized this troubles me. The deposit, circled, is in the same plain as the paddle, the paddle itself is also in the same plain as where one of the three spider arms would attach to the rear of the drum. The question is: is the deposit also replicated on the other 2 areas? School of thought which could be well wrong is: the bearing oil seal is “leaking grease” then running across the spider hub then down the spider arm, running forward under the paddle on the underside of the drum and then also depositing in the only place you`ll see it at the front as circled. In other words the yuk may not be yuk in the true sense of the yuk I was on about and that it is a grease deposit. The rest of it via the pictures does not look too bad if it were normal yuk but not if it that is grease too. In other words perhaps the drum bearings are telling everyone that all will soon not be well? Is the drum on revolving sounding a trite off key? If not that is great but that does not mean that they might not be soon. Based on what I can see and so only what you show the door seal shows no sign of the classic sludge only problem it just looks normal and as one would expect on a used machine

Our water in England is treated at source / at the water works to be drinkable at the end of the tap/s. This is the same water that is also used for dishwashers and washing machines so water used for washing has been already been purified. However, at this is your point, the use of these D4 tablets to prevent any sludge (and I`m not going to repeat myself) seems like a good idea since you say it seems to work. Your previous comment on Caustic soda is spot on as that attacks aluminium….so not a good idea! Mind you people do use soda crystals which removes grease / fat deposits from pipe work (drains) but also in washing machines but that too affects aluminium but in high concentrations as opposed to the much more corrosive caustic soda.
My only problem I have with D4 tablets is their effects on aquatic life which ain`t good. So I found this and let everyone make up their own minds. Oh, and in UK 4 TUBS OF 300 TABLETS each tub is 150 quid.

https://sds.diversey.com/DirectDocumentDownloader/Document?prd=MSDS2256~~PDF~~MTR~~GB02~~BE~~

And a shorter version:
Safety Data Sheet
Suma Tab D4 Tab
SECTION 14: Transport information
Land transport (ADR/RID), Sea transport (IMDG), Air transport (ICAO-TI / IATA-DGR)
14.1 UN number or ID number: 3077
14.2 UN proper shipping name:
14.3 Transport hazard class(es):
Transport hazard class (and subsidiary risks): 9
14.4 Packing group: III
14.5 Environmental hazards:
Environmentally hazardous: Yes
Marine pollutant: Yes
14.6 Special precautions for user:
Diversey does not recommend to transport this product by means of sea container.
Diversey does not recommend to transport this product by air.
14.7 Maritime transport in bulk according to IMO instruments: The product is not transported in bulk tankers.

The current ingredients of Dr Beckmann service-it deep clean washing machine cleaner contains TAED as well as sodium percarbonate, as does Vanish ( and Persil powder detergent), which produce per(oxy)acetic acid when added to water, a more powerful “oxygen bleach” than the hydrogen peroxide produced by sodium percarbonate alone. It kills bacteria and breaks down organic matter. [h=3][/h] DR. BECKMANN SERVICE-IT DEEP CLEAN WASHING MACHINE CLEANER
Disinfection product. Contains 3 g/100 g TAED and 19.5 g/100 g SPC as biocidal precursor for peracetic acid production.

There a promotional video, by the now defunct Warwick Chemicals demonstrating the effectiveness of SPC + TAED oxygen bleach at killing bacteria etc in a washing machine here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NmsV6XAbuY&list=PLpa5kIF6i9KeaAAzFlMCYg_IiAvh0TSYJ&pp=gAQB

I use a powder detergent which has oxygen bleach already in it and wash at 40°C, and rarely use liquids (only if washing delicates like silk and wool as oxygen bleach would break down the protein based fibres), so I’ve never needed to clean my 16 year old old machine, I just descale it once a year with citric acid, and it was clean inside with no corrosion or biofilm yuk when I changed the bearings.
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