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There are two threads running on this one at the moment. I feel it is prudent to make this as a new heading as this service is potentially available via other suppliers. I’m sure the trade like ourselves with sales outlets would not dream of selling GAS & M/Wave parts over the counter, certainly without prior knowledge of the skills of the purchaser.
The CDSL heading has the same interest, “Electrue Selling to the public” and I’m concerned to say the least.
By way of an experiment, I thought let’s give this a go….. Went onto the http://www.4ourhouse.co.uk Typed in Parkinson Cowan, model Lyric55X. Search for Flame Safety Device, and there it is.
Thought about extending this to microwave parts, didn’t bother.
Do they not have a duty of care? There is a statement regards fitting to be carried out by a competent fitter. Joe Public however may feel he is competant. The fact this is remote selling over the net there is no way that the customer can demonstrate he has the skills. After all we all have a go at something that is outside our normal day to day lives. Until his house is featured on the local news and all that is standing is the chimney stack.
I wonder if the manufacturers know this, or even CORGI. Outrageous I say.
Could the spares department of UKW advise whether you endorse this, or do you consider the safety aspect of selling parts where there is an element of danger.
Rudi
Re: Sale of Dangerous Parts to the Public.
Rudolph_Hucker wrote:Could the spares department of UKW advise whether you endorse this, or do you consider the safety aspect of selling parts where there is an element of danger.
Certainly Rudi 🙂
UKW will not under any circumstances sell gas parts to anyone who does not prove they are Corgi registered and has the relevent qualification. The policy I posted over a year ago is here at the top of the public part forum:
http://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/modules.p … pic&t=5075
This also applies to email enquiries I recieve.
As for microwaves, the only part I would sell is the turntable glass unless the lamp can be replaced without removing the cabinet (inspection cover).
I hope that clarifies.
Dave.
Re: Sale of Dangerous Parts to the Public.
Rudolph_Hucker wrote:I wonder if the manufacturers know this, or even CORGI. Outrageous I say.
Outrageous indeed. I thought I would email CORGI just for clarification but I guess they wont reply? I will let you know 😉
Email to CORGI wrote:Dear Sir or Madam,
If I may begin by quoting a part from your web site under the heading “Gas and the law”
Quote: – “Only a competent person can carry out work on gas appliances or fittings. Do-it-yourself work on gas appliances or fittings could be dangerous and is likely to be illegal. “
Could you be so kind as to clarify to me as to what you mean by ….”is likely to be illegal?”
The reason I ask is that I am surprised at the ease with which any member of the general public can gain access in obtaining spare parts for all types of gas appliances, from a host of wholesalers and retailers throughout the UK. That those wholesalers and retailers are apparently at full liberty to do so and the likely consequences is unimaginably irresponsible to put it mildly. To think that I can obtain and fit, for example, a Potterton Thermostat to my domestic boiler or a thermocouple to my gas fire bought over the counter from my local plumbers merchant or from dozens of Internet suppliers without any questions asked, is to say the least appalling!
So what is the point of the regulatory body that calls itself CORGI? Aren’t CORGI supposed at least to ensure this type of trade cannot take place? Or is it a toothless old dog that quotes chapter and verse about the law but cannot bite anyone that contravenes it?
I will be interested in hearing your comments at your earliest convenience.
Yours faithfully
Martin Russell
Re: Sale of Dangerous Parts to the Public.
I read somewhere that a punter tried to purchase a bit over the counter from a service company in Leeds, and was declined the transaction on safety grounds.
I seem to recall that the purchaser tried to take it further regards the fact he was turned away, and CORGI got wind of it. The result of that was the retailer was considered by CORGI to be a reliable and responsible supplier by refusing to action the sale.
Therefore they must endorse the sentiments expressed so far on this, as I certainly agree with the severity of this. I will not even sell a spark plug to the general public.
Can’t remember where I saw this, may have been in Gas installer?
Alex
Re: Sale of Dangerous Parts to the Public.
The only way you can stop it is if Corgi or the government make it illegal for householders to carry out any gas work in there own home, at this moment they are allowed.
About six months ago one of our engineers were called out to a customers house regarding a gas cooker. When the engineer got there he found that the customer had installed it with a garden hose pipe and tried to fix it himself. It really was worrying as the appliance was leaking and had a great potential to explode.
The engineer proceded to disconnect the gas supply to the appliance and issued a warning and informed the HSE.
Later that day I got a got a telephone call from a lady at the HSE asking why we even reported the incident and that there only interested if it was our engineer who had done it.
I stated that the appliance could have caused an explosion and damage to neighbours next door and/or the street.
Her attitude was if it explodes it explodes and just to leave a card next time. I have never been so angry in all my life.I telephoned the head office the next day and let rip with the supervisor on the phone, he apologised but that does not give me great confidence in an organisation which is meant to look after the publics saftey.
Re: Sale of Dangerous Parts to the Public.
I must say I really don’t care what the letter of the law says in this instance as I think our policy is the best and safest for our customers. I have, for many years, operated a policy of not selling spares that did not put customers at great risk or advising as appropriate where there was any risk other than the usual “unplug it” comment. By that I mean if we sold a capacitor we’d warn people that they could have a charge in them or suchlike, just basic common sense stuff.
I’m happy to report that we’ve never killed, maimed or injured a customer or even been partially to blame simply as I’ve never given the opportunity for that to come back and haunt me.
Surprisingly this policy was a Zanussi/Electrolux policy and one which I have to admit I was very sad to see that they have appeared to drop now. Customer care or not I wonder?
I do think that there is very possibly a duty of care here and I do think that if something went wrong, that in the modern climate of blame and claim, that someone will cop the blame. I don’t intend for that someone to be me.
So, some time ago since Dave operated on the same principals at CES, we took the decision not to supply any spares that we felt would put customers in harm’s way from UKW to a retail customer. That policy will remain in force ad infinitum.
That means that we wil not supply gas spares, as Dave points out, without a CORGI certificate or microwave spares that are not consumer accessible period. And, we’ve turned away several sales due to that policy.
What others choose to do is their concern but I would point out that, as was the case with the gas industry, if spares suppliers don’t self-regulate and there’s any problems or the media get hold of it, then regulations will come into force.
In any case, that work is automatically directed towards repairs@, no bad thing in my view.
K.
Re: Sale of Dangerous Parts to the Public.
I agree that UKWG have a very responsible attitude towards gas safety.
Its a shame that legislation will not stop big companies widely visited by the public like B&Q selling ” Gas Fire Installation Kits” on a special end of bay promo or cooker hoses (have you seen their prices!!!!).
I also purchase spares and consumables from a reputable gas appliance spares company in Preston….. To be fair, they will only give a discount on production of a Corgi card but 50{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of their sales are over the counter to Joe public.
Regards
CookerfitRe: Sale of Dangerous Parts to the Public.
I got this email today : –
CORGI wrote:Thank you for your e-mail enquiry.
Firstly, I must clarify that CORGI is purely a registration body that administers the register of qualified gas engineers in the country on behalf of the Health & Safety Executive. We do not powers of prosecution, we pass all cases that are highlighted to us to the Health & Safety Executive.
I can confirm that members of the public can indeed purchase gas appliances and parts and carry out gas work in their own property, as it is not illegal to do so. However in 2007, the government is introducing a “Homeowners Pack”, whereby any major works that you have carried out in your property (such as a boiler installation) must be accompanied by a Safety Certificate from the engineer/installer. This pack will be required to be produced if/when you come to sell your property.
I hope this has clarified the situation but should you have any queries, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Yours sincerely
Sharon Cutler (Mrs)
CUSTOMER SERVICE ADVISORWhilst that only answers the DIY gas spares question and absolves retailers and wholesalers from any guilt complex they may suffer. It does little toward abolishing the dangerous practice of selling spares to any Tom, Dick or Harry. 🙄
I will reply to her email now on a different tack and see what gives……. ❓
Re: Sale of Dangerous Parts to the Public.
Martin wrote:Or is it a toothless old dog that quotes chapter and verse about the law but cannot bite anyone that contravenes it?
Make sure you include some of that rapier wit :tup:
Re: Sale of Dangerous Parts to the Public.
i can remember having to go on a training course at Dill and sons in leeds to be able to get a number to allow me to buy Zanussi microwave spares
and sharp at the time would only supply to agents who had a list of spares they could supply to the public. if the spare was not on list the could lose their agancy if they sold iti would be in favour of a legal ban no gas work but only when corgis monopoly is broken. i am not registered but the costs seem very high for all concerned which puts up the end cost making it more likely that a consumer will do their own repairs to save money i for one do my own boiler repairs and gas piping in my own house but have enough knowledge for there not to be a problem
i did enquire about a corgi course and was told i would have to get a plumbing qualification first which i am sur must be wrong
Dave
Re: Sale of Dangerous Parts to the Public.
It seems that Stoves have no duty of care to the public, this taken from a post earlier tonight in the public forum
cboxy wrote:Hi Dave
Stoves have been able to supply me with the flame failure device!
I am stupidly happy, as I’ve searched high and low for this part!
Thank you so much.
I will get back in touch for an engineer in my area once the part arrives.
Chris
What gives here, its just encouraging them to have a go 👿
Greg
Re: Sale of Dangerous Parts to the Public.
gegsy wrote:What gives here, its just encouraging them to have a go 👿
I know, it’s been a hot topic in every Gas Installer edition I’ve read although I don’t get them anymore 😉
You can walk in to B&Q and buy a boiler off the shelf and no-one will ask any questions, Corgi/HSE are sh1t scared of the big retailers IMO so they just let it carry on 🙁
Dave.
Re: Sale of Dangerous Parts to the Public.
CORGI aren’t afraid. Government is.
Remember that CORGI are only tasked by the HSE which answers to the The Office Of The Deputy Priminister (who is out of a job apparently) on gas safety matters. If B&Q et all state that XXX people will be out of a job if safety or regulation is introduced what do you think will happen? Then you have all the little plumbers merchants that will sell anything to a punter so long as they’ll pay enough for it.
In other words, lots of jobs and lots of profits on the line if you take regulation too far and this is why the “tv-style registration scheme” has died a quiet death I’m quite sure. Which leaves us registering installs to CORGI for, in effect, no reason other than to generate more revenue for CORGI as far as I can see. After all, if you don’t know it was sold what’s the point in monitoring it being installed?
The whole thing is a political shambles. A total mess to which no end or solution is in sight as yet.
Stoves, by selling potentially life threatening spares for replacement by unqualified persons simply are sitting on a time bomb. the first time something goes wrong is when the insurance dudes will come a knocking and the finger of blame will be pointed at the seller. Sadly that finger of blame won’t be pointed at the person who is very likely dead and the one truly at fault as they were sold the item and they can’t be taken to task, just the morgue.
K.
Re: Sale of Dangerous Parts to the Public.
Don’t you think it might be a good idea to share our concerns on the subject directly within the public forums? Possibly move this thread for more reaction and comment?
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