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Hi,
I’ve noticed that most drain pumps for washing machines these days, seem to be of the “paddle” impeller design; with their tendency to jam.
Whatever happened to the “free-flowing, self-cleaning vortex pump” (beloved of old Hoover and Hotpoint machines)?
Re: Drain pumps
These days 🙂 this type of pump has been in general use for well over 10 years. Cheaper to produce, doesn’t leak ( well rarely) bodies often interchangable but as you say, far less reliable than the old shaded pole motorised pump.
Re: Drain pumps
Thanks for replying.
As a matter of interest, could the manufacturers not design the vortex impeller attached to the modern permanent magnet motor; or does the modern motor not spin as fast, thus creating lesser “lift” than the old design?
Another thought: Zanussi has their “Jetsystem” pump arrangement.
Has any manufacturer thought to replace that small pump with a much larger pump; for example, the size of a dishwasher circulation pump?
James Dyson mentioned before that ordinary machines take too long, and don’t clean well enough if on a quickwash cycle. Unfortunately (in my view) the Dyson Contrarotator was not very water-friendly.
Surely cycle times could be reduced if the wash solution was forced through the fabric at a much greater rate?
Re: Drain pumps
Trilobite wrote:Has any manufacturer thought to replace that small pump with a much larger pump; for example, the size of a dishwasher circulation pump?
No need I imagine as I know Bosch use a special lifter paddles to simulate the same effect as a “jetsystem” which Zanussi pioneered.
Greg
Re: Drain pumps
Gimmicks, gimmicks, gimmicks…… The beauty of the “Jetsystem” is that the customer can see something different happening – therefore it must be good! For your info, the “Jetsystem” machines uses the Askoll type pump for the spray system, with a cut-down impellor to reduce the flow. Basic problem with this pump is that the armature is a cylindrical magnet running wet inside the pump moulding, which wears. The more lightly loaded the pump is, the longer its life – obviously a consideration where a pump is almost continuously driven.
The point is that a magnetic pump has a third of the components of the old asynchronous and it doesn’t leak – therefore, it’s cheap. Oh, and on occasion, if jammed by a small foreign body, it may flick over into reverse and clear itself.
Mrs P loved our old Jetsystem – until it was replaced with a semi-commercial machine, which does a superb cotton wash in 40 minutes. Mind you, the energy rating is probably “Z” or lower.
Penguin45.
Re: Drain pumps
gegsy wrote:
Trilobite wrote:
Has any manufacturer thought to replace that small pump with a much larger pump; for example, the size of a dishwasher circulation pump?No need I imagine as I know Bosch use a special lifter paddles to simulate the same effect as a “jetsystem” which Zanussi pioneered.
Greg
Thanks for replying folks.
I see that Bosch does indeed have special paddles, but I thought they were restricted to the “Logixx Dimension 9” model.
Anyway, as far as I can see, most manufacturers use the “passive” washing system; where water is scooped up and merely sprinkled upon the clothes. A few have used an “active” system, where a pump soaks the clothes more efficiently; eg. Zanussi / Electrolux, Hoover / Candy, and Ocean.
To my mind, the pumped systems allow any detergent which has fallen to the sump, to be properly used, and not wasted. I also think the rinsing is somewhat more efficient. And yes – I know Bosch has a “front-fill” nozzle on their machines, but from what I have seen, the water merely dribbles down the door glass – and goes nowhere near the clothes.
Would I be correct in saying that although AEG machines use Zanussi parts, the “Jetsystem” pump arrangement is not used on AEG washers, but a simple Bosch-style “front fill” used instead?
Re: Drain pumps
I would hazard a guess that if you stopped any machine mid cycle, ‘Jet System’ gimmick or not and examined the clothes they would all be equally as wet.
Re: Drain pumps
Jetsystem was based on the principle of slaping clothes off rocks, thereby using less water. To an extent it worked and it offered results that a customer could plainly see.
In the end a gimmick though as Chris rightly points out as it turns out with the lower water levels.
Trilobite is entirely correct, a lot of machines now employ a “water lift” type system using the drum paddles. The effectiveness of which is up for debate.
To my mind the effectiveness of either pumped system or not is, at best, debatable on the actual wash performance. I don’t really believe that either offer any real benefits other then customer feel good factor and looking a bit cool.
IMO th epumped system could be used to far greater effect with a little thought employed.
As to performance and water conservation, that’s a whole debate of itself and one that I am particularly passionate about. See the article about the EU labelling system for a start on the debate. I honestly believe that the wrong path has been chosen in many, many ways.
Dyson’s a smart dude maybe, but we could have told him that a quickwash was a waste of time ten years ago. 😕
The problem there is that there’s certain physics that you just can’t get past unless there’s some innovation that I am unaware of. You cannot reduce the wash time using current technology without increasing the energy usage due to this.
I think there’s ways to combat this, it just needs a bit of thought applied to the process and a greater understanding of the wash process than seems to be employed currently. but you have to remember that the current focus is on meeting the EU energy usage figures to gain that all important “A” rating, beyond that the actual real world performance appears to be a secondary consideration.
But to address the original question, pump failure and blockage is a nice little earner for us and the manufacturers, why change it? 😉
K.
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