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Our Bosch WFK2200 is ten years old, still going strong. We mainly use the short cotton wash 40°C (60°C for sheets) with Coop non-biological powder and Comfort (normal or Easy Iron) softener.
Every few weeks I cleaned the dispenser drawer to remove the black mould. Despite doing a 90°C wash (for the tea towels) every two weeks, the mould still persisted.
It was not easy to clean all the mould off, even with a small bottle brush. The dispenser compartment was easier. A small sponge with a scouring surface proved best.
Then I found a better method. Spray the drawer and compartment with a mildew remover spray (or any kitchen spray with bleach), leave for at least 15 minutes then wash the drawer and compartment with hot water.
Recently I tried an experiment. We stopped using the Comfort softeners. Behold, no black mould. Better still, no chore of cleaning the drawer and compartment. Wish I’d done it years ago.
Some experts recommend using biological powders rather than non-biological, especially if you wash at 40°C. My experience shows that it was the softener, not the washing powder, that was causing the mould.
We’ve never had black mould on the rubber door seal but we always leave the door ajar for a few hours after using the machine. This allows the seal and the door to dry off.
So if you have a problem with black mould, stop using softener and see what happens.
Re: Black Mould in Soap Dispenser Drawer
Hi Kwatt
I had already seen the article. Our drawer compartment never got as bad as the one shown in the article.
My tip about using Mildew or bleach spray may be useful for other people who have black mould in the drawer and compartment.
Here’s another tip. After spraying the inside of the compartment with bleach(not neat Domestos, please), start the machine to allow hot water to wash it out. However, be prepared in case some of the water comes out of the front of the compartment,
Better still, once you have removed the mould, see what happens if you stop using Comfort (or other makes of) softener. You may find that you don’t get the black mould at all.
Prevention is better than cure. In my experience, 90°C washes don’t prevent it; but not using softener does.
Do all the people who get black mould use softener? Do those who don’t use softener never get black mould? Answers, please.
Woodey
Re: Black Mould in Soap Dispenser Drawer
No black mould problems here, – and the drawer is only cleaned when necessary, which is not often!
We use Ecover non bio liquid which goes straight into the drum, (not the drawer), and Ecover conditioner which does go in the drawer.
Maybe you could have a go with Ecover conditioner and see if the mould problem returns….. I would be interested to know.
All the best.
Lee
Re: Black Mould in Soap Dispenser Drawer
This confirms what I thought.
I use softener (Lenor or Comfort, varies according to my taste!). Black mould built up in my previous AEG, and my current Zanussi (both cold fill only). Powder/Tablets regularly used in drawer – does not prevent the mould. Poor design of compartment allows mould to congregate at back of the Zanussi soap box, behind a plastic ‘riser-piece’!
My mother had a couple of Hoover machines (hot & cold fill), then the current Bosch (cold fill only). All there ever was in the soap box area of all three machines, was a slight, pale-pink bloom; certainly no black mould. She used powder, no softener – ever!
At least with the hot & cold fill machines, the hot water would have a certain cleansing effect. The cold water only machines appear to be more susceptible to this black mould.
Re: Black Mould in Soap Dispenser Drawer
Trilobite wrote:I use softener (Lenor or Comfort, varies according to my taste!).
In the machine surely 😆
Greg
Re: Black Mould in Soap Dispenser Drawer
The indesit machine we have is hot & cold fill, but only cold water is used to carry the conditioner into the machine, so there is no ‘sterilisation’ effect.
Ecover conditioner, (like all their products), is plant derived rather than petroleum based with a byproduct of the slaughter industry thrown in for good measure, (most fabric conditioners use carcase-derived ingredients such as tallow).
I still wonder if the mould is related to the presence of animal fats in the likes of ‘comfort’ and ‘lenor’.
It would be really interesting to hear if a change to a plant-based conditioner, such as Ecover, cures the problem.
Lee
Re: Black Mould in Soap Dispenser Drawer
MacLee
You may be right about Ecover conditioner but I don’t intend to try it.
I asked our home help who does the ironing whether she had noticed any difference since we stopped using Comfort. She said no.
My wife and I have not noticed any difference in the feel of our washed clothes either.
So why spend money on conditioner that we don’t really need?
Have we all been conned by the TV adverts for conditioner? Will the manufacturers compensate us for all the time spent cleaning black mould out of the drawer and compartment? I suspect not.
Woodey
Re: Black Mould in Soap Dispenser Drawer
Washing machines are supposed to be occasionally run on a “maintenance wash”, to clean the machine. This is usually the 90 degree programme.
The hot & cold fill machines filled with hot water only (at about 60 degrees C) on this programme, thereby sluicing any bacteria and mould from the soapbox spray nozzles, mixing with powder detergent, and washing the residue into the drum. Rinsing would be cold, as would the fabric conditioner dispensing.
Cold fill only machines cannot self-cleanse their soapboxes, thus the mould problems.
The powder drawers are supposed to be removed and cleaned quite regularly, but sometimes the design of the soapbox itself leaves nooks and crannies that cannot be easily cleaned, hence my remarks above.
Re: Black Mould in Soap Dispenser Drawer
Trilobite
Our WFK2200 is both hot and cold fill. We always do a 90°C wash at least once a month but it did not prevent the black mould, probably because the conditioner dispensing is done with cold water.
Since we stopped using Comfort there has been no sign of black mould.
You are right about the nooks and crannies. It was extremely difficult to clean the mould off our drawer, hence my tip about using bleach spray.
Woodey
Re: Black Mould in Soap Dispenser Drawer
The mould you see is bacteriological and can be caused by many factors, singling out conditioner even though I don’t particularly like the stuff, is unfair and not the only possible cause. It may have solved your problem Woodey, that isn’t to say that it will solve everyone else’s.
Hot water will help to clean better but not much, especially given that most machines since the late 70’s, excluding older Hoover and Hotpoint washers, will generally only fill with hot on the first fill after the full 90C wash after the pre-wash fill and drain.
Once this takes hold, much as on door seals as well, the chances are that it will return as it is bacteria. Even when you spray with bleach or whatever, you won’t kill them all and they will return. The speed that happens at will vary but, once you are aware of the problem you are more liable to keep the drawer clean, therefore reducing the speed or even keeping the bugs in abeyance.
The bottom line is that the soap drawer is a cracking environment for bacteria to grow in, it’s nice and damp as well as nicely heated in most modern homes, perfect breeding conditions for them. The only way to keep it mould free is to keep it clean.
K.
Re: Black Mould in Soap Dispenser Drawer
kwatt
I agree that black mould may be due to other factors than conditioner and I’m sorry if I gave the impression that it was always due to conditioner. I’ve never had black mould on the rubber door seal; but we always wipe the door dry after use and leave it ajar between washes.
What we really need is some reliable research. Find some users who have had problems with black mould in the drawer and/or compartment, then ask them which make and model of machine they use, which make and type of washing powder or liquid they use, which conditioner (if any) they use, which programmes they use (most people only use two or three of the many available). Also ask if they have had black mould on the door seal and whether they wipe the door dry and leave it ajar or closed between washes. Also ask the same questions of people who have not had black mould. Then analyse the data to see if there is a pattern that reveals the most likely cause(s).
Then ask those who have had black mould to change their powder or liquid or conditioner (or stop using any conditioner) or try different programmes to see if they no longer get black mould.
The companies that make the machines and the powders and conditioners are unlikely to want to carry out this research. They each have their own vested interests.
But the WhiteGoods forum users could do it. All it would need is an email to registered members to ask them for details. My list of questions needs refining into a questionnaire for the email. Instead of speculating about causes, let’s get some facts.
Woodey
Re: Black Mould in Soap Dispenser Drawer
There’s loads of info on that from the detergent manufacturers Woodey as well as the appliance manufacturers. It’s bacteria, that’s it and, the only way to avoid it is to clean the drawer. It happens with any powder or conditioner and on any machine, there’s no mystery to solve here.
From experience the detergent used or appliance makes no difference at all.
If you wipe the seal and leave the door ajar then the seal dries out, thereby robbing bacteria of their breeding ground, that’s why you have avoided it on the seal.
K.
Re: Black Mould in Soap Dispenser Drawer
woodey wrote:Instead of speculating about causes, let’s get some facts.
Fact 1) Water supplies (mains & internal tank storage) contain micro-organisms (bacteria).
Fact 2) Bacteria thrives and multiplies in temperatures between 20 and 40 degrees celsius.
Fact 3) Bacteria rapidly forms a ‘biofilm’ on plastic surfaces subjected to these high ambient temperatures.
Fact 4) Bacteria also clings and multiplies to internal rubber hoses and door seals.
Fact 5) Treatment involves using anti-bacterial or anti-oxidant products (either containing bleach or a benign cleaning agents such as citric acid).
Re: Black Mould in Soap Dispenser Drawer
It’s now July and there is still no sign of black mould in the dispenser drawer of our Bosch WFK 2200 since we stopped using Comfort fabric conditioner earlier this year.
I can’t prove that there are no other causes of black mould than using fabric conditioner but we have made no other changes in the way we use the machine. We use the same powder (Coop Non-Bio), the same programmes (mainly Cotton 40°, Wool 30° and a monthly Cotton 90° for tea towels) so in our case it must have been the conditioner that caused (or at least encouraged) the black mould.
I’m delighted that I no longer have the chore of cleaning the dispenser drawer once a month or so.
I hope this posting will help other people with the black mould problem.
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