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I have recently had two customers who are unhappy with their ISE 5 machines Mark 1 versions. Both complaining of poor washing results and that the machines leak !
It transpires that both use Fairy Detergent, one using powder the other tabs. Now I don;t know about anyone else but having investigated these problems it appears that Fairy is a high foam dergent and during the washing cycle the machine over foams causing poor pump operation and leaking via the dispenser. I have spent some time messing around with dosage measurments to try and get the right mix and its nothing like the guides that Fairy suggest on the boxes.
Its diffuclt to reconcile the fact that ISE machines have difficulty with a customers favourite brand of detergent. Having explained to both customers that washing is a chemical process balanced on the basis of volume, water and detergent customers get pretty angry when you explain they must reduce the dosages by as much as three quarters !
I have one particular client who claims that the Appliance is not fir for purpose and that its ridiculous for me to suggest that she use a different brand of powder of reduce the dose.
Anyone else had similar problems with Fairy or come to that soap dosages period ?
Re: The Story of the Fairy
You do not say how long this customer has had the I.S.E. 5 if it is less that a month may I suggest that you offer the cusomer her money back and sell the machine as second hand at cost so you should get your money back. When I sell an I.S.E. 5 I always offer to take back the appliance if they do not like the machine within a month.
Bill Ellis 😀
Re: The Story of the Fairy
Thats an interesting point of view Bill, we have sold many ISE 52 and 2s and out of all of these sales I have had two customers who have complained. The point is that this particular customer has had the machine for eight months ! and has only complained in the last two months of leaks, the first was down to a plumbing problem which was nothing to do with our installation or the ISE appliance, the second was when the pump became intermittant and chewed a hole in the door seal and resulted in a repair.
I cannot imagine Curry’s or Comet’s refunding on a machine that has been in service for half its warranty period. The problem is that customers are guided by directions on the detergent packing and those directions clearly state that the information is for guidance only, thus adjustments may have to be made depending on water hardness, water quantity and drum volume. My other customer has adjusted her dosing to suit the ISE but this customer may be far more diffcult to deal with.
I understand your reasoning to keep the client happy but I will have a word with the guys at ISE about this issue.
Re: The Story of the Fairy
It is a long established, well known problem. I have one customer who now uses less than half of one Ariel tablet to prevent oversoaping and gets excellent wash results. This is a very soft water area.
Just point out the fantastic cost savings on the detergent usage. 😉
Jim.
PS. Fairy has always been a high suds detergent IMHO of course. 🙂
PPS. Guess who was the last poster in the linked thread. 😆
Re: The Story of the Fairy
Iadom said: PPS. Guess who was the last poster in the linked thread
Yep that was me, wrapped wrists and all that, but that said I was trying to find out if months on people were still having this issue and exactly what powders. tabs or liquids this seemed to be confined to.
Re: The Story of the Fairy
I get it with all types of detergents, just keep on reducing the dose until it stops oversoaping. Don’t seem to have the same problems with the ISE 2 or ISE5 mk2 though.
I always tell the customer on installation that a major reduction in the amount of detergent is advisable.
Jim.
Re: The Story of the Fairy
Hi squadman,
This is not confined to ISE, I’ve seen it on Smeg, Ardo Meroni and others…
It happens with certain types of clothing as well more than others. Some towelling mixes and some fabrics, especially those with a high retention, seem to be worse than others.
Load size matters as well, less load = less detergent but try getting a customer to admit it, in fact, try getting them to admit to just about anything that THEY could be doing wrong.
Generally I will explain that, unlike their previous machine/s, that the new ones are far more efficient and that they use less water and less energy and that they will have to experiment with the dosing level in line with that and the water hardness and soiling levels. Although they all seem to think that they can just chuck in whatever they feel like and it will just work, if it doesn’t then it surely must be the machine that’s at fault, can’t be what they’ve done. :rolls:
The analogy I use is that if you buy a car and it says “use synthetic oil only”, do you just chuck in whatever you like? Stage further, if you were to buy a performance car, would you just use any old fuel and oil and, if it then broke, would you expect the manufacturer to pick up the tab?
Overfoaming we’ve had on a 10 as well now, shock, horror. But fear not, after a few minutes talking to the woman it turns out she was using that damn Vanish stuff as well as a normal dose of powder in an extremely soft water area. She of course blamed the machine.
Told her to chuck it and we’ve never heard from her again. 😉
K.
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Well thats the conclusion I have come to, like you say try getting customers to be logical. My real problem with this is that the particular customer is adament that SHE is right and whatever I say to her is wrong.
She has told me that that I recommended this blasted machine to her and its leaked from day 1 ( thats 8 months ) The first time she called we went out to her and found her standpipe leaking. My engineer then charged her for a labour call to rectify the issue. ( a mistake in my opionion as she had recently spent money with us ) Six months on and a futher call comes is for leaking again. The woman tells my staff that the machine has never been right from day 1 and she wants it out the house and her money back. Same engineer recalls and this time finds the pump is running intermittantly and the door seal has a whole three inches long where it has been rubbing the door interlock.
We replace the pump and seal there and then problem of leaks solved.
Three weeks later shes one the phone ranting that the machine is leaking all over the floor of her new extension and she wants is to collect the machine and refund her money so she can buy a machine that works and is up to standard !!!!!Saturday I brave the icy wind and tackle her head on, on entry to the house she was having a right go. I calmed her down enough to speak quietly to her and set about checking the appliance over. Good no leaks from the plumbing, no leaks from the machine. So I ask what detergent are you using. What she asks !!!! I repeated myself, She replied Fairy,
Ah I said well thats the problem it will be causing a overfoam of the machine and thus leaking as a result. I then explained the science behind my statement and she then said there is no good you coming here a trying to flannel me with that !After another ten minutes of discussion I got her to accept that she allowed me to experiment with dosing and she agreed. She is using Fairy Tabs. Two for normal hard water washing. Way way too much foam, I rinsed the machine out, six rinses to do so ! and tried one tab, still excessive foam !
My concluison is half a tablet is about right, but I knew she would not like my findings as she states that her washing does not get clean with two tablets. I also knew she would do battle over exactly how one makes a half tablet.
I explain all of this on her return and as I suspected she was up in arms, however I have convinced her to use half a tab for two weeks and if possible buy some Fairy powder as that is easier to control.
The upshot of this situation is that I have refunded the first labour charge made by my engineer and we now need to work with her to find the optium dose of this brand which will not overfoam the machine and still get her normal soil washing clean. From the customers standpoint she cannot understand why she has to faf about with all of this and feels that the machine is problematic.
I think that there should be a paragraph or two in the owners manual about this subject as it would show the customers that the manufacturer is aware of such issues and the remedy’s and this would I think alleviate situations such as this.
What da ya reckon ?
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