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Hi All,
Just taught Id get a thread going on the different methods each of us use to diagnose a problem ( that is not glaringly obvious ) with a washer at a callout. When do you cry halt? Do you ber the machine? Do you offer a replacement while you take it away for diagnoses? Ill kick it it off with mine.We will take an example of a machine engaging the interlock, pumping for a sec then sitting there dead. I dont want some smart arse telling me what the answer is :), the idea is that its a fault you havent enountered before and your stumped.My own method in this case is,
Solenoids,
Brushes,
Heater,
Interlock,
Pressure switch,
At this point Im risking losing credibility.( some would say I lost it a long time ago 🙂 )
Replacement offered to the customer while I take it back to the workshop where I will work on it at the rate of approximately 50p an hour 🙁 in many cases untill I diagnose and fix the problem. I do this where ever possible as I feel it keeps me on my game so to speek. If the problem is to expensive to fix I advise that I dont charge but would appreciate the machine as payment. I usually secure future buissness from this. If i do fix the machine I charge my normal labour fee, similar to that of a brush change or blocked pump. In many cases I screw myself bigtime but i feel its vital for my ongoing training.
Looking forward to hearing your taughts.
PaddydRe: Diagnostic methods.
Are you quite new to the business, Paddy? Don’t take that the wrong way – we all were once.
I never, ever take a customers machine away. I do have a loan machine available for cases when spares are going to be difficult or slow – but, the customers machine goes in their garage in the meantime.
My customers pay a call-out charge, or I don’t go. If I’m working and fixing, they pay the hourly rate, which is more.
Having been doing this for many years, I have good technical and diagnostic knowledge. I have accumulated plenty of tech info into the lap-top and will research on the site for info if I’m not confident. “Search” is a wonderful tool. If the answer isn’t there, ask – somebody knows.
If you can’t figure it it out in an hour (which the customer is paying for), you may need to have a think about your approach. Fault codes are not a magic bullet, indeed, can be a total distraction to basic fault finding, especially on the budget brands. They are all basically the same, they follow the same basic principals and do the same basic things. Learning the individual quirks of the various brands is the real skill.
We do this job for one reason and one reason only – to make money. I will freely admit that I thoroughly enjoy the job, but that isn’t the point. As soon as you lug a machine away, spend your own time on it and lug it back, you cannot be making a profit – bad practice.
Regards,
Chris.Re: Diagnostic methods.
Hi Penguin.
Im returning to this bussiness after 15 years penguin. Back then I trained for six months then worked for an independent for about a year. Not great experience I know but thats where Im at. I do take your point as regards profit, its just in my case this is the road Ive choosen to go down. Untill I get myself the neccesary training I need I feel the most concensious and professional thing I can do is to continue with the way Im doing it now. The level of diagnostics that you and others that have been doing this for years is huge, it cant be trained or bought. Im sure youll agree. At this stage its a sort of intuition im sure.A quirk you see today in a machine might be similar to problem you saw in a machine back in 98 where you blew 2 modules and tried an interlock but it turned out to be a slight earth lekage on the motor. Bang penguins in out, thank you mam.15 minutes. Next please :), while paddyd is standing there 2 hours later feeling like a fool scratching his head. The temptation at this point is to take the cowboy root and ber the machine. Its not my way and back to the workshop it is with it. I know its not a great model for bussiness and I do appreciate your advice. I would love to hear more about the laptop, how youve set it up and the type of stuff you feel is vital on there. Thank god for the internet, it is a great tool. Anyways its nice to say hello, and thanks for the help on the phillips washer dryer aswell.
Massive respect.
Paddyd.Re: Diagnostic methods.
Morning paddy! 🙂
Carrying a Laptop on the van can be a vital tool with regard to diagnostics and dismantling procedures as well as easy access to your customer database information and more besides. For example, having a copy of the Electrolux TDS DVD loaded on your machine will allow full and free access to all Electrolux and Zanussi appliances. From exploded parts views to diagnostic test procedures are all there for you to see!
The TDS disk is more the exception rather than the rule as technical information between makes these days is so very hard to come by unfortunately. There are a couple of others, like the Whirlpool SIOS disk, you can possibly get hold of as well to put on your machine. I have also a load of PDF format files full or priceless info on my PC.
Wifi access can get you on the Internet in many remote places these days (not sure about the coverage in you part of the world?) as well as Blackberry SMS phones to fire up UKW and use their SEARCH facility to try and find the answer you’re looking for. Or search wholesalers web sites to look up parts and prices whilst on the move. All very handy stuff I’m sure you’ll find.
Apart from that there is precious little else to come to your aid when you’re standing in someone’s kitchen pondering over a washing machine over a fault you haven’t a clue how to find. It’s very much a ‘poke and hope’ situation unless you have a good grounding on systematic fault finding and elimination techniques. And that can only be learnt from experience I’m afraid. In other words the ‘University of Hard Knocks’! 🙁
I’m not in favour of picking up a machine and taking it away to ‘the workshop’ but if it’s the only way you can resolve the problem and learn from it then perhaps you’d best do that. Provided of course you don’t over charge or inconvenience your customer in the process but regard the exercise as a learning aid. For those calls where such action is necessary, why not charge your customer half price or a special customer discount rate for the knowledge you’ve gained from it? And next time you won’t have to go to such drastic measures to effect a similar fault and profit even more!
😀
Re: Diagnostic methods.
Hello, my two bit worth is i used to work like Paddy, you go the extra mile to keep the customer happy and to possibly secure future calls as well as being recommended to others. Now maybe it’s due to the amount of time i’ve work in this business or maybe it’s just simply a case of realizing that i’m running a business and though i will give 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} on every call i go to, i now draw the line at rushing out to a call at 10pm because the customer isn’t available at any other time, (yes it’s happened 🙁 )
Ok so a plumber would do a night visit but the customers wallet feels it, you try charging extra for out of hours visit and you get told that they will get a neighbor to let you in.
Following up on what Martin said about “priceless info on my PC” i allso have paper backup on the important stuff just incase vista F$@KS up AGAIN! or the battery runs out. I know we have a thread for test procedures, faults and etc but maybe it’s worth having a thread where wiring diagram and any other forms of information that would benefit us all could be placed, for example i got some wma config sheets from iadom which i found very useful and as far as i know these aren’t in any thread.David
Re: Diagnostic methods.
To be perfectly honest, we would, like as not need another server if we tried to put all of the information available online, there is just far to much and finding what you need would be a nightmare.
You have to bear in mind that a lot of the information is copyright material. Most of the info in the Known Error codes thread has been re written by the individual posters, config charts and wiring diagrams would be very hard to post without infringing copyright.
Jim.
Re: Diagnostic methods.
I had no computer when I first started, just some engineering qualifications, my copy of The Haynes manual for washing machines, a wing and a prayer! I used to get a few of my spares from Graham Dixon, the author of said Haynes book and I did ask his advice a few times when I was stumped.
In the motor trade it seems to be regarded as accepted practice to just keep fitting new parts until you cure a fault. Perhaps some people try to do the same with domestic appliances but you would soon push the bill up to beyond what the customer is willing to spend on a machine. A stock of secondhand motors, timers and modules is useful to have. Even if the customer only wants new parts you still get a chance to confirm your diagnosis by substitution before spending money on an expensive new part. It also means less machines will be BER. Tomorrow I will be fitting a replacement induction motor in a Servis machine. At £160 odd a time, I’m never likely to fit a brand new motor in one of those.Re: Diagnostic methods.
Too true phidom, thats why my garage is full of donated machines from BER jobs of the last few years.. amazing what little bits & bobs come in handy 😉
The welded 7kg Zan tub sitting with shot bearings is gonna get opened up one sunday afternoon in the summer 😯 the rebel in me just LOVES trying to beat the system & if TIM can do it… 😯 😯 Watch this space 😆Re: Diagnostic methods.
Martin wrote:…but if it’s the only way you can resolve the problem and learn from it then perhaps you’d best do that. Provided of course you don’t over charge or inconvenience your customer in the process but regard the exercise as a learning aid. 😀
Indeed!
Every now and then, I’ll take a machine into the workshop that I’m stuck on, or even if I don’t have time for.
It does help if you only do a 10 mile radius of your workshop (like us), so petrol and time aren’t an issue. Then of course at the workshop I’ve got the expierance of 35 years man-n-boy Grahame to fix it with me (if he can’t fix it over the phone.)
Example: I’ve got 4 jobs on this morning, the first job is a Hoover/Candy CTD that is weeing in it’s own base somewhere. I’ve had lots of different faults on these before, but never this fault. I guess, that it’s the pump failing/blocked. Of course when I turn the m/c on the pump is working. So, I could spend ages taking the thing to bits to see where the water is comming from, or I can put it on the van, and let Goatboy senior do all that, whilest I dash around doing all the other ‘bread and butter’ stuff.
I’d always tell the customer what’s happening first, and ask them if they mind me taking away their appliance away for a day or two. I think it’s better to spend time in the workshop fixing a machine properly, than rushing and making a mistake.
ANyhoo, reading back through this essay, I conclude that it would be better to give yourself more time in a customer’s house for fault-finding, but in the real-world of business, time is too precious!
Re: Diagnostic methods.
If you don’t know what’s wrong after 15 minutes, some customers will assume you are incompetent. I have once or twice been told to leave in such cases. I make sure I still get my callout charge though 😉
Re: Diagnostic methods.
If you find out whats causing that leak GB let me know. I’ve had a swapped out one in the garage for ages which does just that :(. Stripped it down don’t know how many times, resealed bits, new o rings and it still leaks.
Sorry for the hijacking :rolls:TC
Re: Diagnostic methods.
cornwell40 wrote:If you find out whats causing that leak GB let me know.
‘Cos those machines are made ‘in the continent’ maybe?:innocent:
Re: Diagnostic methods.
eeeeeeeeeeeek! Busted 😯
I’ve never had one doing that before or since. I assumed it’s the pump, and the conversation with the customer went like this…
“Err, I think it’ll be the pump, but I’d like to take it into the workshop to test that theory, coz it’s alot of work.”
“Ok. They’re abit cr*p these Hoovers aren’t they? That was fixed under guarantee twice.”
“Oh! If you really don’t like it, I can make it disappear and bring you back a really good new one.”
“Coolio, yes please”
The Hoover is still sat in the workshop untouched :/ Yesterday it almost became another WEEE stat. but I had space to keep it. If I/Grahame ever gets time to diagnose it I’ll let you know what happens init 🙂
Re: Diagnostic methods.
We are happy to help new engineers diagnose faults over the phone whilst they are on the premises looking at the machine. If you misdiagnose and fit one of our parts, you can return it for a £5+vat handling charge. Give us a call on 01159652118 – Tony EMW Electronics http://www.emwelec.co.uk
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