- This topic has 14 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 22 years, 1 month ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Fromn the minutes;
Contractors Contract
This was mooted at a previous meeting from a suggestion made by Veronica Cutchey (who was not in attendance at this meeting) and subsequently an idea taken up by DASA who have assigned a team to the idea. It was generally agreed that this was a good idea if nothing else to give a framework of points for everyone to work within, both repairers and their contract clients.
Sean asked for a point of order to suggest that without UKW becoming a little more formal than it is that this would carry any weight in the marketplace. This was agreed generally by everyone.
———————————————————————————
Comments on this are invited.
K.
Re: The Contractor’s Contract
❗
An interesting idea and not without merit.However all of us should not ignore the tremendous pressure from :
1/ Manufacturers ( who are under pressure from customer, retailer and their sales force to constantly outdo the competition)
2/ Consumer articles and tv/ radio programmes who seem to delight in be- littleing repairers ( to increase their popularity and ratings)
3/ The lack of regulation in the UK for appliance repairers ( anyone can set themselves up as a repairer rip off the customer and tar the rest of us with the same brush.
4/ The customer who often expects the impossible and blames us when a request is unrealistic.
Without sounding mercenry I would suggest that we are all here to make money and we acheive this by repairing appliances.
To be successful in this we have to offer the customer ( whether an end user or WP) a good standard of service. It is not good service to offer customers service levels often demanded now by manufacturers, retailers etc, i.e such as call b4 10am and an engineer will be out the same day call after 10 and the engineer will be out next day. These service levels are very rarley met and often the appliance will not be repaired on the 1st visit.I am of the belief that the industry needs to be realistic in its service levels to the customer and promise something that can be delivered.
For example:
Where a customer contacts the WP for a service call it is only right that the customer comes off the phone knowing when an engineer is to call and to expect a call from the engineer on the morning of the call to confirm he is calling and where possible give the customer an idea of expected time of day. To be fair to the engineer/repairer a 2/3 day notice of appointment should be passed to the repairer by the WP. Thus giving the customer a standard of service while giving reasonable notice to the repairer. Of Course if as a repairer we find we can visit the customer earlier than the date promised by the WP , then a phone call to bring the call forward would delight the customer and promote a positive response and instil confidence in the people who are to repair their appliance. How often have we been given appointments only to have been let down by others.
Perhaps our industry motto should be ” To deliver what we promise”.Steve
Re: The Contractor’s Contract
Steve Wrote
Where a customer contacts the WP for a service call it is only right that the customer comes off the phone knowing when an engineer is to call
.
It is my opinion that most WPs have little idea of distances, local transport problems and repair times and prebooked calls are a no-no, after all WPs make use of my services they do not employ me. Its my company and I will make my own decisions & appointmentsa call from the engineer on the morning of the call to confirm he is calling and where possible give the customer an idea of expected time of day.
This I already do giving the customer a 2 hour window in the day. I am a single engineer business covering one of the largest counties in the country and rearly miss a 2hr window. If I am held up on a previous call and am likely to be late I always ring the customer and keep them informed.
Hi Steve486,
Some good thoughts there. After 11 years on my own, we’re finding that a next day service is the acceptable answer (or fill the odd gap which arises in a day’s work).
Most of the problems seem to arise from the customer end however. Getting Make/Model/Fault info can be appallingly difficult. I have been to too many “It’s a white one and it doesn’t work” for it to be funny anymore. Give me the lady of the house every time ….. However, the wife is a highly competent engineer in her own right (She can STILL do a set of Hotpoint bearings faster than me! Rats.), and it does mean that she can bully the information out of the customers so I have a sporting chance of turning up with the right bits to do the job. It also means that she understands how to allocate appropriate time per call; which means that we can give customers a fixed time for the call – they like that! What has happened within the business though is that over the years the vans have got bigger as the level of van stock has risen. You need time to develop this, as you are returning a high level of profit into stock allocation.
If you compare this with what call centre operatives are trying to do (ie the work providers), you realise that the staff have minimal technical knowledge and see all calls as an hours work to be fittted in somewhere. If you work a big patch, you’re in trouble ……..
I think that “Deliver what we promise” is an admirable sentiment, but we need a rider – “Give us the info and the parts to do the job”!Regards,
Penguin.Re: The Contractor’s Contract
Penguin you’ve touched on a brilliant topic for conversation and one I keep beating people up on a bit.
In days of old machines were simple, I could vitually diagnose any fault on a Candy or Zanussi and I could either tailor the stock for that call or I would have 85{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of the time have already had the part onboard anyway.
Now there are all these small manufacturers that we work for and you simply cannot do that due to the lack of technical information and stock but more importantly a lack of familiarity with the product. You simply don’t see enough of them to assess them in advance which ultimately leads to double calls. Also the lack of technical information often makes the engineer look stupid in the house as he hasn’t a clue on a new product he’s not seen before and with the advent of more and more electronic fault codes this is getting worse, again leading to more double visits.
It has always been my feeling that the smaller manufacturers should be charged more for smaller volumes of work but that is not the case these days. Many of them and, I am thinking on ISDAL, AIS etc here, are getting a volume manufacturers rate for what I would not consider to be a volume of calls to justify the low rate on offer. I liken this to going along to a printer or indeed Connect, if I ask a printer for 100 pads printed the price for 1000 will be wildly different. Likewise with Connect, if I ask for 10 Askoll pumps I’ll get a huge saving if I instead buy 100 or 1000. Why do we not apply the same mentality in this sector?
So in effect the low volume but high double hit calls are paying for that service as they should be.
The problem is of course that many of these low-volume manufacturers or brands are undercutting the big boys to get sales with cheap appliances in a lot of instances which gives us even greater problems. That you won’t solve as, to the customer, all white or silver boxes are equal when it comes to domestic appliances, the only difference is price and whilst we know better, they do not.
But getting back to the point, it is on these calls that you will notice a massive increase in double calls and that’s the reason that in days gone by, many engineers would choose only to do Hotpoint or Hoover as, one or two boxes of inexpensive bits repaired all. Now, in the current marketplace for charge or contract work that is no longer the case and you can pre-diagnose all you want but even doing that the best first fix rates I’ve heard of currently is about 85{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} on a single brand service operation. For multi-brand that drops dramatically, in most cases to under 60{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d}.
So given that a call costs, on average, about £27 to make you actually need to get £35 a call just to break even, not make a profit, just to meet the costs of providing the most basic of services. Go wrong anywhere, like incorrect spares, a triple visit, no-access call or whatever and that call just made you a loss…at £35 a call!
K.
Re: The Contractor’s Contract
Quote:
It is my opinion that most WPs have little idea of distances, local transport problems and repair times and prebooked calls are a no-noI can only speak from my perspective in that having worked travelled all over the uk myself that the understanding of distances times etc etc are part of the ongoing training given to all call takers and work schedulers and in addition to this where sub contractors are used is to ask what areas they cover and build this into the booking system.
Having operated this way for a few years I have found that:
1/ We can pre book an appointment ( the customer knows when an eng will call.
2/ Give the sub contractor 3 days notice of the call(s) up to the agreed level of call volume ( this does vary depending on how many engs the sub contractor has)
3/ Receive back the results of each call the day after and either order/ despatch parts where required and process the completed calls to pay the sub contractor.By working this way I have found the customer does not have to keep phoning to find out when an engineer will call, as they already know. The sub contractors knows 3 days in advance what calls he has. And the sub contractors get paid quickly.
I have tried the method of informing the customer that the engineer will be in touch to arrange an appointment, and suffered the fallout, customers repeatedly phoning because they had heard nothing from the sub contractor, chasing the sub contractor, getting beaten up by manufacturers, insurance companies, solicitors etc etc etc. I am never going back there.
Of course there are one man bands who cannot accomodate pre book calls even 3 days ahead. I have found that having built a relationship with them then often a call to them asking if they can do a few calls where they have room to take them the day before the call(s) can work well at times.Steve
Re: The Contractor’s Contract
Steve wrote
Of course there are one man bands who cannot accomodate pre book calls even 3 days ahead.
My main concern with prebooked calls when you are a ‘one man band’ covering a large area is that there is the posibility that the WP will prebook 3-4 calls one side of your patch when you have already planned your own calls the other side which in my case could lead to 50-60 miles traveling between the two lots of calls, if you then add in the calls booked as AM & PM you would be dashing backwards & forwards like the perverble blue a!!! fly all for a subsidised call charge. Not good for stress levels, bank balance or repair quality.
Hi,
I prefer to think of myself as a sole trader rather than a one man band. The office is more or less manned full time, and we ONLY work to schedule. It ain’t difficult. Then again, I’m not involved with WPs.
Regards,
Penguin.Re: The Contractor’s Contract
Penguin Wrote
I prefer to think of myself as a sole trader rather than a one man band
You are right of course! My office is also manned full time, my other half does the office admin, books calls, weeds out cooker timers on automatic & blocked filters. customers love not paying for silly calls & always come back for proper repairs. word of mouth is a wonderfol thing, much cheaper than Yell etc with better results.
RegardsRe: The Contractor’s Contract
steve486 wrote:I can only speak from my perspective in that having worked travelled all over the uk myself that the understanding of distances times etc etc are part of the ongoing training given to all call takers and work schedulers and in addition to this where sub contractors are used is to ask what areas they cover and build this into the booking system.
Steve,
It is my experience that call centres on the whole employ staff who are trained in taking calls and not a lot else. They go through their little checklist and pass the call if it meets the criteria, little or no technical knowledge or skill is available for general receptionist work, this is particularly true of the larger call centres.
They provide the manufacturer or insurer with only a few benefits the major one being cost saving. The next is the ability to route the work to whatever agent (or employed engineer) they see fit to do so. The third is to provide the customer with one central point of contact. The last is to have a database of every call reported and therefore stop bogus claims, another nifty little cost cutting device. There is no other reason or point to them in my opinion.
Since customers, on the whole detest the the things why do manufacturers as insurers persist in using them? Customers hate the Casio concerto as they await an answer, they hate the loathsome “press 1, press 2” affairs and they hate the fact that often they are on for a lengthy period to get a human voice on the line.
We have a different problem, the engaged tone. However, we asked our customers if they wanted a call holding/queuing system adn out of 100 asked 98 said no! They’d far rather get engaged and have the option of using the BT “ringback” feature. We listened to our customers as we think they’re important.
As for the geography, well you may have a clue about how far Helensburgh is from Glasgow I agree. What you do not know is that during the summer months when those pesky tourists are out farting about on the roads looking at the pretty hills the journey time can be more than doubled. The same goes in many other areas of the country and I’m sure our members in the West Country will only be too happy to explain that.
So, your calls per day rate drops, the cost increases on a seasonal basis and the fee remains the same, something no WP I know of takes into account.
I very much doubt that pre-booking works in every situation. Frankly I know that it does not in my case for many postcode areas and, TBH, I find it a loathsome thing but I do try with it and do the best I can as I understand the need for it. That said, I often find myself re-booking the call with the customer, especially in rural greenfield areas, not so bad in conurbations where it is far easier to slip the odd call into a run.
I and, many others, are now forced to pre-diagnose calls to make it pay on certain contract work, I even now do this on many calls anyway regardless (including charge work) as its more cost and time effective. Call pre-booking cannot account for this and takes away that option as all we get from the customer is, “but the girl said you’d be here on…”
We always get hit with the nonsense about no-contact with the customer and whilst there may well be some justification with some agents on that font the biggest single problem I ever have is actually getting customers on the phone! They bugger off and then wonder why no-one can get in touch with them. The mobile phone thing is another problem and one that’s been discussed elsewhere, but to my mind that’s an additional service and there’s a price tag on it, just like the extra pack of biscuits you buy in Safeway.
But hey, if it works for you… 😉
K.
Re: The Contractor’s Contract
K
We of course all have our own opinions based on experience, however the number of compliment letters from customers, sub contractors, manufacturers etc on our notice boards would suggest otherwise.
Added to that of the recent extra 22 sub contractors we have added to our existing base, 16 have no problem in our system and therefore can be paid the following week, as to the other 6! I hope to try to seek some kind of solution as it is in no ones interest to just spit the dummy out and seek an alternative subcontractor.
Yours and other threads do raise some very valid points that deserve to be given ( and will be) some thought the aim being to seek to build both trust and respect and an enviroment all can work together . Presently I see warring factions.
Steve
Re: The Contractor’s Contract
steve486 wrote:We of course all have our own opinions based on experience, however the number of compliment letters from customers, sub contractors, manufacturers etc on our notice boards would suggest otherwise.
What notice boards?
What’s the ratio of complaint to compliment letters, because in my experience in the service industry the complaints normally outnumber the compliments by a minimum of 3 to 1. The problem being is that the only reason a customer has to call us is that something bust, so they’re already hacked off.
steve486 wrote:Added to that of the recent extra 22 sub contractors we have added to our existing base, 16 have no problem in our system and therefore can be paid the following week, as to the other 6! I hope to try to seek some kind of solution as it is in no ones interest to just spit the dummy out and seek an alternative subcontractor.
Adding agents is no problem at all, retaining them can be as I’m sure you know. There is no “one system fits all” out there to my knowledge as the demographics and geography of each territory in the UK is differnent and many have to have a different approach to working practices. The failing of many manufacturers etc to see that has been a problem and a bone of contention in the past and still is with some.
It is good to hear that you work with your agents, that is an encouraging sign indeed, unlike some I could name.
steve486 wrote:Yours and other threads do raise some very valid points that deserve to be given ( and will be) some thought the aim being to seek to build both trust and respect and an enviroment all can work together . Presently I see warring factions.
It’s not warring factions at all, it’s simply commercial reality coming home to roost. It’s simple, time costs money and an engineer’s time has a price tag on it you either choose to pay the price or move on somewhere else just like buying any other product or service. Sadly the end products value in monetery and percieved value has been eroded to the point where we are struggling to earn a living doing what we do and make a living (except for Martin and his Securicor escort of course ;)).
And, as my favourite analogy of the moment goes, you can walk into Tesco and buy the own brand cheap as chips stuff or you can buy the Finest or even something in between, the choice is yours as they say but the two or three products are worlds apart and more often than not, you get what you pay for.
K.
Oh BTW Steve al I can say is that thus far I don’t have a problem with the company you work for either, but I couldn’t blab who it was unless you said I could. 😉
K.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.