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Has anybody got any idea what the official line is on the repair of Duel Fuel Cookers if it’s only the electric bit that’s bust, eg fan element or the like. There seems to be a bit of a grey area as to whether or not you need to be a Corgi guy aslong as the gas supply isn’t disturbed. I’ve always said no to customers before, but a local appliance dealer has just asked me to do some of these repairs for him, as the regular corgi engineer he uses is only interested in fitting boilers !
I look forward to your comments – Ta – WizardRe: Dual Fuel Cookers – Corgi or not?
Wizard,
I am sure you will get a Corgi registered bloke/company to comment here soon enough (I’m not) But my thoughts are that you shouldn’t for your own sake as it may cause a problem if something goes wrong and your liability?
I know what your saying but best steer clear if I were you!
Do also check your PUBLIC LIABILITY INSURANCE policy for cover! (I take it you have one of them?)
Martin
Dontcha just love them “grey areas” 😉
My understanding of this is that, as wizard stated, if you disturb the gas supply then you have to CORGI. If you open the lid, you have to CORGI.
So, essentially, you have to be CORGI.
The rules do allow, from memory, that you can replace seals, knobs and elements so long as it meets the above criteria. The problem is, how do you know in advance that the gas would or would not have to be disturbed to do the job? 😕
K.
Re: Dual Fuel Cookers – Corgi or not?
I think its about time that the manufacturers and Corgi Clarified this,Some manufacturers say okay ,some say not okay,Corgi say …
well not a lot really .
as most dual fuels are ranges how do people get on pulling them out with one engineer ,If you look in the Elba handbook it states two people required !
I wonder if the labour rate would reflect this?
LawrenceRe: Dual Fuel Cookers – Corgi or not?
Well, thanks fellas, you’ve confirmed what I thought was a grey area is in fact more grey than all the ships in the British Navy put together ! I will check my public liability insurance but I think it’s probably safer to ‘just say no’. It’d be nice to get a definite yes or no, but I do know how vague the regs are – When I was with with that firm that begins B & sounds like posh, the answer you got to this question depended on who you asked & whether it put them out if you didn’t do the job !
And so the great Corgi debate continues !Re: Dual Fuel Cookers – Corgi or not?
To further the debate on this subject, when I was last “checked” by a Corgi inspector 2 years ago, I asked the above questions and more for the very reason wizard has asked.
His reply was much the same, but it does make a difference if the company is Corgi registered or not. For example, if wizard (who is not registered himself) is carrying out a call on a duel fuel cooker for one of his own customers, it is perfectly ok to do this, so long as no gas tight union is disturbed (a bayonet connection is not considered to be a gas tight union as it is self sealing). But, if wizard is carrying out a call on a sub contract level for a Corgi registered company, the registered company may well be in breach of the gas regulations.
The same applies to me, if I recieve a call on a gas or dual fuel cooker, and as my company is Corgi registered (there is a difference between companies that employ engineers and one man outfits here), I am deemed to be competent in that field and must attend myself as I am the only person within my company that has carried out and passed the relevent ACS course and assessments, even if it’s just to replace door seal.
The reason for this is I assume, that a self employed and/or non-registered engineeer would not have the knowhow to carry out all or any of the other tests and visual problems we as registered engineers are meant to look for (in Corgi’s view), so if you don’t know about the possible problems, you aren’t going to look for them.
Double standards ? Yes, it is, and whether you adhere to those guidlines is your choice at the end of the day.
Oh, how I wish Corgi had taken up my offer to join the site and answer these sorts of topics directly, sadly they chose not to 👿
Going back to the bayonet hose issue, I was told at the time by the Corgi inspector, that anyone can disconnect and reconnect them as they are self sealing, so the next time you have to move a cooker or shift that gas dryer stacked on the washer, it’s perfectly ok to do so.
Dave.
Re: Dual Fuel Cookers – Corgi or not?
OK, so you all heard about the guy who died cooking marmalade this week? Imagine if I or you had replaced the oven element the day before. No connection I know but just who would get the blame?
Having said that, dual fuel is BIG business and element replacement must be the most profitable side of our repair business so we will not turn them down. We have a corgi guy we contract for the odd gas work we do, and you know what, he wont touch the electric side.Re: Dual Fuel Cookers – Corgi or not?
wizard wrote:Has anybody got any idea what the official line is on the repair of Duel Fuel Cookers if it’s only the electric bit that’s bust, eg fan element or the like. There seems to be a bit of a grey area as to whether or not you need to be a Corgi guy aslong as the gas supply isn’t disturbed
No grey area here the way I see it, CORGI state that you are not allowed to work on a gas fitting if you are not registered. their definition of work, did you:-
A install the fitting
B maintain, service, repair, alter, renew or purge the fitting
C change its position, if not readily removable
D remove the fittingTheir definition of fitting INCLUDES,
appliances designed for use by consumers of gas for heating, lighting and other purposes.
In my view, an electric oven although part of a duel fuel cooker is not an appliance designed for use by consumers of gas for heating… etc.
CORGI state in their manual,
All electrical work needs to comply with the electricity at work regulations and should comply with IEE Regs, gas operatives should therefore ensure that all electrical work is carried out by a competent person ie NICEIC approved. So according to CORGI, I’m ok to connect the cooker to the gas supply because I’m CORGI registered, but F**k me if I dare connect it up to the electricity supply. The electrician can’t install it and commission it cos he’s not CORGI reg, I can’t install it and comission it because I’m not NICEIC approved !!I’d agree with most of the points Dave raised, other than changing a door seal (if he meant on a duel fuel), as a self employed CORGI engineer I’d have no problem sub contracting the replacement of an oven door seal to a non registered engineer.
Mark’s point about the guy cooking his marmalade, I’d heard that one on the news and had a laugh. Paddington bear sprung to mind.
So what if you had replaced the oven element, thank f**k the guy didn’t get electrocuted.I’ve been CORGI reg for about ten years, most of that time as an employed engineer. Then last year registered my own business, it was a nightmare the inspector came to see me and on the odd occasion I got a question right he would condemn the CORGI regs saying they weren’t tight enough (you CAN’T leave a 2 mb drop drop even if it’s within the regs, that’s a leak and you CAN’T LEAVE IT).
6 months after I registered I had an inspection, the guy (different inspector) saw some smoke matches in my kit and asked me what I used them for, testing cooker hood extraction I said, thank f**k he said, whatever you do don’t use them to check for spillage from a gas fire, if you suspect a faulty fire issue a warning notice cos your not registered to work on them.
Took him to see one of my installs, a free standing gas cooker. NO SAFETY CHAIN, yet I knew I’d fit one. Customer immediatley said wall had been replastered (which was true) the inspector gave her verbal advice, wasn’t interested in issuing an official not to current standards warning notice.As a final point (and I refer to the CORGI manual, gas cookers and ranges second edition) if after performing all the relevant checks, ie gas pressure, gas rate, flame supervision, etc etc, the customer still complains of poor cooking performance then a victoria sponge cake should be cooked
for the test the user will require:
2x 175mm round sandwich tin
100g margarine
100g caster sugar
100g self-raising flour
2 standard eggs
greaseproof paperlight the oven, blend the butter and sugar until creamy, then add 1 egg and mix………… I hope we’re all suitably trained and equipped, LOL.
Re: Dual Fuel Cookers – Corgi or not?
Albert wrote:As a final point (and I refer to the CORGI manual, gas cookers and ranges second edition) if after performing all the relevant checks, ie gas pressure, gas rate, flame supervision, etc etc, the customer still complains of poor cooking performance then a victoria sponge cake should be cooked
The only sponge I see in all this is CORGI! 😉
K.
Re: Dual Fuel Cookers – Corgi or not?
Albert wrote:I’d agree with most of the points Dave raised, other than changing a door seal (if he meant on a duel fuel), as a self employed CORGI engineer I’d have no problem sub contracting the replacement of an oven door seal to a non registered engineer.
No I don’t have a problem with that either, I send my own engineers to replace door seals and carry out surface temperature tests on dual fuel and gas cookers, but in the eyes of Corgi and possibly the HSE, if you are registered you should be aware of the potential problems and carry out all the relevent safety tests as well.
Before we were registred with Corgi and I had not done any gas training I could quite happily go around changing seals, elements etc with no fear of repurcussions.
As mentioned, double standards 😕
Dave.
Re: Dual Fuel Cookers – Corgi or not?
Thanks for all that chaps. It’s a great shame that CORGI wouldn’t get involved with the site, cos maybe then there wouldn’t be such bad feeling toward them throughout the industry. If only they could realise that if this continues & they insist on making training almost impossible to attend it will eventually filter down to our customers & they’ll no longer purchase gas appliances. – or is this the ultimate aim? People have long memories when it comes to repairs, – lets face it, if there’s nobody to fix it when it goes wrong(most people realise things do eventually) then you won’t buy it in the first place! I think maybe we could do with some help from the manufacturers on this point .( I won’t hold my breath!)
wizard
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