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Had two jobs spat back from the insurers this last week, it seems that the new insurers are being picky. First job ISE 10 we forgot to included the serial number of the appliance, yes I know our error but surely rather than incur postage costs and delays someone could have accessed the warranty database ISE side and filled the serial number box in ? I am aware that you guys have a lot to be doing up there without doing the agents job for them but it struck me as a small thing.
Next machine ISE condenser dryer on a 3 + 3 warranty still inside warranty.
Reported Fault Taking too long to dry, We went out to this 20 mile round trip and found that the fan and chamber was severely blocked. This job rejected with a note asking us to charge the customer directly.Surely if the job to rectify this fault involves removing screws and coming into contact with moving parts then its a job for a technical person i.e a engineer ? I cannot see how this cannot be carried under the warranty due to the nature of the job as its not as if its like cleaning a filter ???
Spoke to David this morning who was unable to answer any of these points but if the insurer is refusing to honour jobs such as these some sort of evaluation is needed.
Re: ISE Insurance Rejections
Hi Squadman,
On the first one, depends if the details were there as they often are not. But, in any event, yes the insurers will kick it straight back if the details aren’t all there and this includes but not exhaustive:
Job number
Name
Address
Postcode
DOP
Model
Serial
Fault reported
Work carried out
Spares fittedThose are just the absolute essentials, leave out one or more and the chances are that the call will be rejected. You would be amazed at the number of sheets that come in missing one and, very often, more than one of those.
The problem is that neither we nor the insurer have the time to do the engineer’s admin work for them, it’s that simple and my apologies for being as blunt as that.
Pretty much the same will apply to Amica too just FYI.
On the second…
No machine is not covered for blockages. End of story, it specifically states this on all the ISE warranty certificates.
The reason that it’s blocked is because users and, it has to be said especially in commercial environments, don’t regularly clean the filters and condenser units. It’s sheer laziness on the part of the user or they haven’t bothered to read the use and care guide. In commercial, they just don’t give a monkey’s usually and just run them till they don’t work no more.
Then, of course, it’s the machine’s fault, not the fact that they haven’t looked after it.
Do watch though as the insurers aren’t stupid (I have said this before) and they will kick back calls where you go out, find a user fault and stick it through as a “wire off pump” etc. Some of them we’ve taken the hit on and paid them but, to be perfectly blunt, we can’t do it with them all as we simply cannot afford to pay for insurance AND pay for user error and misuse calls as well.
K.
Re: ISE Insurance Rejections
Thats a fair point regarding the completion of the job sheets which I did acknowledge in my post Kenneth, We send all our sales warranty cards in fully completed at the time of the sale. I was working on the basis that the database your end was fed that kind of info. Anyway its sorted now thanks !
As regards the kickback of the recent job I admit to having some difficulty in accepting this particular instance. The filters and condenser were clean on this appliance when checked so there was no evidence to suggest misuse. The terms of the warranties may provide for misuse and that I of course accept, the customer is unable to remove the blockage and to be honest these condenser dryers seem to block in that area real easy as I have seen it on other machines in domestic settings.
You said: Do watch though as the insurers aren’t stupid (I have said this before) and they will kick back calls where you go out, find a user fault and stick it through as a “wire off pump” etc. Some of them we’ve taken the hit on and paid them but, to be perfectly blunt, we can’t do it with them all as we simply cannot afford to pay for insurance AND pay for user error and misuse calls as well.Thats also fair enough but I was’nt suggesting that course of action in my suggestion of evalution. From our point of view we need to scrutinise each call now and in instances where it is deemed that we will not get paid out by these insurers we will have to advise the customer that they are liable for the full costs of repair and if they have issues with that we will refer them to the insurer or yourselfs.
We have now invoiced this customer for a labour charge but I hold no hope out of recovering it as they have deemed it a warranty call and this will open a can of worms with them I am sure. We are going to have to vet the calls at the time of booking and advise warranty claimants that if the fault is deemed to be user error or outside the terms of their warranties that they will incur charges for labour and possibly parts.
Thanks for setting this out clearly we can avoid any such future situations such as these. 🙂
Re: ISE Insurance Rejections
I hear ya.
Trouble is we can’t have one system for one and another for another and, another… and so on.
I kinda get it for the insurers as well, as all they do is hand it to a bunch of admin staff that have a playbook… doesn’t meet the criteria in the playbook, reject. Matches criteria, like fault and remedy don’t match, reject.
It isn’t a malicious thing at all it’s just that everyone has to play to the lowest common denominator, i.e., the worst agent that may well be trying to screw the system. Problem is that on occasion some justified and quite proper claims can get caught in the crossfire.
But trust me, there’s stories I could tell you about claims to ISE that would curl your toenails in horror. 😉
Sadly there’s some that, I shall be blunt, take the p1ss.
So there has to be some rules sadly.
I know you weren’t suggesting any impropriety but I have to “toe the line” as it were as well.
On the fan thing, I’m a bit annoyed as I checked the instruction manual and it doesn’t tell people how to clean that. I will cure that on the new website.
As for fluff build up in dryers.
Yep, it’s a problem on a lot of them and it’s a build up over time due to failure to clean filters and condenser units where fitted. The fluff has nowhere to go so it blows back into the machine and subsequently blocks it. There is no other explanation on an Asko build dryer other than drying mad stuff that chucks lint out like it’s going out of fashion. On others, felts gone etc. can cause it, poor sealing and all that sorta stuff and that’s absolutely fine but, there’s always a reason.
I wish I could find the pictures Bryan sent and a few others of these machines in commercial premises that would explain the line that we take never mind the insurers on commercial premises.
Basically, we get from engineers that the machine is friar tucked totally, need an exchange and all that sorta stuff kicks off then, when we actually look at them in every single instance it’s been misuse or abuse. Bar none.
After the first two or three extremely embarrassing claims to the insurer only to be told that the engineer was talking Horlicks and was a complete muppet, you learn.
This isn’t your problem at all and I am not pointing fingers at anyone whatsoever. What I am saying is be very careful that you have diagnosed correctly and that you are in the right please or we get it in the neck. 😉
On the other hand…
If you charge a customer and they do not pay an invoice we will withhold any further calls. We will not issue a warranty claim number if the customer owes you money, end of story.
ISE will back the agents 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} on that and, they are long warranties. 😉
K.
Re: ISE Insurance Rejections
I more or less agree with all that ken and I know that you know as engineers we are on the sharp end of dealing with clients face to face
I cannot go to a call and tell them that they should get tools and strip out covers and clear chambers out first ensuring that the appliance cannot be started while little johhny is playing near by ! In this letigious society can you imagine !!I did wonder what the situation would be should a client refuse to pay and then we get asked to call again, glad that we would have support you end
Re: ISE Insurance Rejections
Get it.
But…
One cross headed screw or so isn’t a big ask. Even two or three perhaps.
It’s like the door release on the 10 washer, it has a screw to hold that in place. Is it unreasonable to ask a person to unscrew that to release the door?
This is a thing I’ve argued with DEFRA, OFT and others.
Where exactly do you draw the line on what’s common sense and should be within most people’s remit to undertake on their own and where does it cross the line into requiring a more skilled person to undertake the works?
If you can define that point I’d be grateful as I, government departments and legal entities struggle with it. Just as all also struggle with various other issues as well.
Which leads to, at which point is the owner responsible or the manufacturer/brand owner or repairer?
Basically, it’s a big tub ‘o worms you really don’t wanna open. 😉
As to the back up on calls you guys charge out and don’t get paid for, just remember I have been and, still am, in the same boat. What hacks me off with it is where the repairers aren’t given the support, that’s just not right in my book.
If we charge for a call due to a rejection or whatever I think and, it is a very personal view, that if it’s to conform to the manufacturer, insurer, brand owner or retailer’s rules that we should be supported in that to the hilt.
If any party then wants to make a commercial decision to pay for the service provided previous then that’s their issue. Pay the bill issued for continuation of service.
K.
Re: ISE Insurance Rejections
I will keep you posted as to if the client pays up or not but now I know the parameters for dealing with this I feel happier but wont be making the same mistake again. If they fail to pay and call us for any further repairs they will be refused service as much as I hate to throw a spanner in the works as I believe this will promote bad customer relations. But Hey Ho !
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