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Earlier this year I decided to invest in a new kitchen. As part of the process I began investigating what type of appliances I should have and after much research decided on a Neff induction hob and a Bosch double oven.
This is where my problems started though. In trying to source the products, I found quite a number of retail outlets (John Lewis, Appliance city, Homebase, Tesco, Appliance direct, Currys etc) that sold them. I placed orders and awaited delivery.
After a week, I phoned up the retailers and discovered that they did not stock the items and that the wholesalers were introducing new ranges. This happened on more than one occasion with more than one supplier.
Fair enough, I thought. However, upon further investigating, I found that the replacing items I needed to purchase were not available with no delivery dates in sight.
Now, all this fuffing around had cost me a number of weeks, with 50{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of the retailers saying they had stock but clearly did not, as in the case of one of my latest suppliers (Homebase), I paid a hefty premium for this particular appliance and they took my money (hopefully to be refunded).The point here is this:
Bosch, Neff and Seimens sell out their old stock before introducing new stock and this action covers a number of months. This keeps the prices high, just like housing stock with too few houses and too many prospective purchasers.
I believe, reading other website forums from last year, that this happened in 2015 and 2016.Well, due to my impending kitchen installation next week, I have had to buy alternative makes. Hard luck Bosch, Neff and Seimens, I will not be buying any of your products again as you have lost another customer due to your greed and policies. 🙁
Re: Neff, Bosch and Seimens appliances
Had you visited the retailers premises with your request all your disappointment could have been avoided. It’s just a perfect example that online buying doesn’t always deliver.
Re: Neff, Bosch and Seimens appliances
Bosch, Neff and Siemens all have range changes which come into effect every year on the 1st April. Models which are due to be replaced or updated are not produced after Christmas in order to sell through old stock before the new are due in to the UK.
Good business sense from a good German manufacturer. Had you posted up the model numbers on here that you were looking for I would have been able to tell you the situation as we like other retailers had the new lists back in Feb this year. As for out of stocks this always happens this time of the year due to the changeover.
Sorry it hasn’t helped you on this occasion but please come back to us if you require anything else in the future.
DonRe: Neff, Bosch and Seimens appliances
Erm……….sorry Don, it doesn’t work that way. Coming into ‘effect’ doesn’t mean that the goods are readily available. What it means is that the replacement items are possibly on the website. No delivery dates are forthcoming hence impossible to plan ahead. Even now I still cannot get a delivery date and my kitchen is being installed next week!
As I said before, BSH greed has replaced customer satisfaction. Older products always get sold anyway regardless of newer replacements. Most replacements are almost always more expensive than their predecessors even though some of the changes are just cosmetic.
As for being made in Germany, not so sure about that. Appliances are nowadays made in the country that has the lowest manufacturing costs.
Am still amazed at how many months it takes for a changeover. Other makes don’t seem to do it.Re: Neff, Bosch and Seimens appliances
Okay here we go 🙂
andymac65 wrote:Erm……….sorry Don, it doesn’t work that way. Coming into ‘effect’ doesn’t mean that the goods are readily available.
No you are quite right it doesn’t but had you gone to a Bosch retailer at the start of your journey with these appliances we would have been able to have given you a better picture. All Bosch direct accounts have access to a trade system which gives us live stock status, due dates, new models etc. Had your choice not been available a compromise model at that stage could have been a possibility.
andymac65 wrote:What it means is that the replacement items are possibly on the website. No delivery dates are forthcoming hence impossible to plan ahead. Even now I still cannot get a delivery date and my kitchen is being installed next week!
Why not as a business you have cleared the old models and are now taking orders on the new ones.
Give me the model numbers and I’ll find out.andymac65 wrote:As I said before, BSH greed has replaced customer satisfaction. Older products always get sold anyway regardless of newer replacements.
Not quite true, take Hotpoint and Indesit as an example they still have quite a few of last years old models still available and the new ones as well. What they will end up doing is “box dump” them to someone like Curry’s at a silly price. Good for turnover but not for profit. Most manufacturers run lean these days as to hold old stock still has a large cost to them which in turn yes could put prices up.
I was taught at a very early age that “turnover is vanity but profit is sanity” this is still true today.
andymac65 wrote:Most replacements are almost always more expensive than their predecessors even though some of the changes are just cosmetic.
Update of appliances happens each spring, this has happened every year since I can remember.The prices on Bosch, Neff and Siemens updated models are the same as last year. The only price increase we saw last year was Sept due to the exchange rates.
andymac65 wrote:As for being made in Germany, not so sure about that. Appliances are nowadays made in the country that has the lowest manufacturing costs.
Nope what I said was
don wrote:Good business sense from a good German manufacturer.
BSH group have factories in Russia, Poland, Spain to name a few. Some of the premium end machines are still produced in Germany.
andymac65 wrote:Am still amazed at how many months it takes for a changeover. Other makes don’t seem to do it.
Already answered as above.
Our industry like many others have a spring turn around like cars, furniture and clothes. There is always a plethora of new spring adverts shouting “new spring stock has arrived!!
Sorry about the long post but I felt it needed answering !!
Don
Re: Neff, Bosch and Seimens appliances
I’ll start at the beginning:
I had done some extensive research into my choice of ovens and induction hobs in February and early March but as I would be away on business from mid March to the beginning of April I didn’t want to purchase before then as the warranty would be wasted for a month and a half as my kitchen installation date was set at the beginning of May. I knew that I had about three weeks to buy, ample time I thought.
The double oven was a Bosch HBM13B151B. I cannot find anything about this oven or replacement as at the date of writing this it is not on the Bosch website. Presumably John Lewis are Bosch retailers? They were unable to sell me this double oven when I inquired the beginning of April as they said it was being replaced but with no further information available on a replacement style or delivery date.
The induction hob was a Neff T51D53X2. Same again from all the retailers I went to and this includes high street stores like Currys and John Lewis etc. I did find out that the replacement was T56FD50 and an alternative T56FT60OXO but this model was very expensive. Again, these new models were not available with a delivery date.
Don’t agree with you on the ‘dumping’ I’m afraid. The prices will be cheaper but if the product is good it will still sell, just not at the high profit margin that the replacement will do.
Hotpoint and Indesit aren’t exactly market leaders in reliability are they? That’s why the older products are marked down, just to get rid of them. It’s all about how good the product is or perceived that will sell it, as well as good marketing.
At the end of the day, if someone cannot get a product they want when they want they will go elsewhere, just like I did.
I remember a few years ago I bought a Ford Focus. Good write ups and perceived as a reliable car. Not mine unfortunately. It was tinny, uncomfortable and although the engine was good, the dual mass flywheel disintegrated after 35,000 miles and now out of warranty costing me over £1500 to replace including clutch and starter motor. I won’t be buying another Ford, that’s for sure.
So ends my journey. I hope you understand the position I was in at the time with installation date impending and under pressure to purchase. Four months of winding down stock at a time when many people are having their kitchens refurbished is poor judgement in my opinion.
Re: Neff, Bosch and Seimens appliances
I can see where you are coming from re your own situation however the picture is much much bigger and that’s what global companies do.
Just an example of how they play a few years ago Bosch had a range of refrigeration in the 55cm width, these sold well in the UK but not on a global scale. So the whole range was stopped.
Box dumping has been going on for donkeys years. I can remember back in the late 60’s and very early seventies when I were a lad this happening, the biggest culprits back then were the Rank organization and Decca.
Moving on, the multiples like JLP and Curry’s will “special order” on their own electronic system and it will say none available in their own stock and to order which is normally 2-3 weeks assuming an in stock situation. So, you order one and that that order goes through to H.office and when they have enough items to order the buyer / merchandiser will send it on. Independent Bosch retailer’s like ourselves use an online service called Tradeplace which gives us an advantage in accessing what has been already mentioned. For us an order for an instock item can be as quick as three days but in the main it’s five days, big difference.
T51D53X2 now obsolete no stock left.
T56FD50X is the replacement and in stock at Neff
T56FT60X0 out of stock due to us 22nd May.
HBN13B151 in stock at Bosch. Picture and a little detail attached..
Finding out this info took me no more than three minutes of mouse clicking.Sometimes the independent retailers can offer a far superior service compared to the multiples, yes you may pay a slightly higher price but then you have got service with value.
Just out of curiosity what did you go for in the end?
HTH 🙂
Don
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