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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41336234
So many questions raised in my head even at this time of the evening (morning for the old people) that have no answers.
And talk about milking chaos and, there are glaring holes in that report. 🙁
K.
Re: Another W-T-F Moment In Media
But Ken if a foam backed fridge caught light within 90 seconds surely that is reason enough for concern? In this day and age a foam lining should be flame proof. Insulation linings no matter their application should be completely safe. From the sofa we sit on, bed we lie on, appliance we operate, even the insulated walls that surround where we live, should be totally flameproof.
Grenfell highlighted a problem, a problem that must be seen to be addressed in whatever way it can. One of which is foam lined fridges.
Re: Another W-T-F Moment In Media
Martin, it’s like saying we should ban all wooden garden huts as they burn and we should all ditch them, go out and buy metal ones.
It is absurd.
They may well burn but so does everything around them.
Are they the cause, is that backing and insulation the cause? No, it isn’t.
So it’s not addressing any problem at all.
All it’s doing is putting the LFB and Which? in the news and getting a few lines of copy, that’s it.
K.
Re: Another W-T-F Moment In Media
Beko fridges had faulty defrost heaters that led to the insulation catching fire and, well you know the rest of the story.
We cannot rely on manufacturers for safety prevention. Only by legislation do manufacturers comply with certain safety levels. Beko dragged their feet for ages before that recall was implimented. Whirlpool are to this day still dragging there’s over tumble dryers. And no doubt awaiting the conclusion of the Grenfell enquiry especially with regard to a report that a Hotpoint fridge may be a central feature.
Fire prevention of domestic appliances should be legislated further from ‘preventable’ and ‘avoidable’ to IMPOSSIBLE !
Re: Another W-T-F Moment In Media
Uhm… no.
Show me the EVIDENCE for that please.
I think you’ll find things a little lacking there other than cries from the media and some finger waggling. But evidence, there ain’t none.
And you’re factually wrong on the Beko issue, that was with the defrost timer, I suspect due to water ingress. So, sorry but it has bog all to do with defrost heaters.
As to Grenfell, well no. There’s no evidence that points to the appliance as yet and probably won’t be until the investigation is completed but, the LFB apparently attended and extinguished that, then when leaving happened to notice the side of the building was on fire.
So again, no evidence and lots of doubts over the actual causality.
And you can’t make fires impossible, only a complete fool would declare such a thing about a product oh wait, someone did, they said that the Titanic was unsinkable. That turned out well eh?
But all the above doesn’t address the core issue which is that, if the insulation goes up then something’s caused that to happen and it need to be a pretty intense heat for a sustained period to allow that to happen.
Ask any of the fridge guys that have braze with a turbo torch just how easy it is to light up insulation. It ain’t as flammable by far as is being made out in this tripe.
So insulation going on fire, metal backs and all that malarky are a side show, not really worthy of note.
K.
Re: Another W-T-F Moment In Media
I just listened to a person from Which being interviewed on the radio and he was very specific in his reply to the fire risk question.
“The refrigerator flammable plastic rear wall is not a fire hazard in itself but could contribute to a fire in the home”
So basically the fire needs to start somewhere else and spread to the fridge.
I think that more effort should be put into general fire safety education and stop this headline grabbing BS.Steve
Re: Another W-T-F Moment In Media
kwatt wrote:Show me the EVIDENCE for that please.
I think you’ll find things a little lacking there other than cries from the media and some finger waggling. But evidence, there ain’t none.
And you’re factually wrong on the Beko issue, that was with the defrost timer, I suspect due to water ingress. So, sorry but it has bog all to do with defrost heaters.
Defrost heaters a typo error on my part, sorry but I meant defrost timers. In Beko’s case the timer was enclosed in a plastic box and supported inside the box with a foam pad. In certain extreme cases when condensation was allowed inside that plastic box the spark from the switchgear caused the foam pad to ignite leading to the box catching fire, the flames of which rose and set the foam insulation alight (your “sustained heat and intense period) leading to the tragic circumstances much covered by the media.
A typical report at the time: –
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-18279444
The insulated linings were ultimately the issue here. An issue that needs addressing when electrical components and plastic are combined. Flame retardent compounds need to be part of the foam insulation so that ignition is impossible. Foam mattresses and linings in furniture have such retardents in place so that when fire is introduced it self-extinguishes. Not so with a fridge liner especially if the back of a fridge is fully open where oxygen combined make for an ideal catalyst.
Re: Another W-T-F Moment In Media
So, what you’re saying then is you know better than the combined wisdom of the BSI and various EU safety and fire regulation authorities then?
Most pundits slinging their comments about have nothing other than opinion and what they might read in the daily rag to go on? The British tabloid press, such a wealth of truth, accuracy and detail eh?
I’m sorry but this really irritates me as honestly, there’s bugger all evidence to support that whatsoever Martin, it simply does not exist.
And you need to use injected foam in the cabinets and there’s more concerns than flammability there, you also need to meet the “save the polar bear” demands on the use of CFC etc, effectiveness to insulate, customer expectations on capacity, costs and a bunch of other stuff. Then atop that you need to meet all international standards.
You don’t just wave a magic wand and solve it all.
Moreover, the volume of fires caused as a result of incidents by appliances is virtually insignificant by volume and, according to one source, greater than 64{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of those can be laid directly at the feet of users/owners for failures in use, misuse, mis-installation and so on.
So the whole “appliance fires” thing as mooted here is complete b—–cks a total waste of time and effort.
K.
Re: Another W-T-F Moment In Media
kwatt wrote:So the whole “appliance fires” thing as mooted here is complete b—–cks a total waste of time and effort.
Yeah yeah, people died, their tough luck. 100,000,000’s of fridges out there never catch fire. A handful of people die as a result of the ones that do so the stats don’t add up to anyone anytime soon doing anything whatsoever about it. Media Bol…..ocks, you win!
Re: Another W-T-F Moment In Media
martin
Yeah yeah, people died, their tough luck. 100,000,000’s of fridges out there never catch fire. A handful of people die as a result of the ones that do so the stats don’t add up to anyone anytime soon doing anything whatsoever about it. Media Bol…..ocks, you win!
I live braze every time. I don’t use a micro flame unit and yes the flame does touch the side or insulation and not once has it gone up in over 25years and thats with direct flame. The insulation is NOT the problem that a secondary or third factor and never the first. The electrical components for the compressor are also a smoulder plastic that doesn’t ignite and for the compressor electrics to ignite would not be a fast ignition or due to another secondary factor..Grease,dust and the normal food thats around that area for months or years.
As for the Beko timer foam then thats also due to several factors and not just foam going on fire and yes it was a design fault. Personally a couple of small holes would have allowed air to ventilate and avoid condensation which would have been the actual end cause but you would need the perfect conditions for these things to happen. Air temp, electrical temp, humidity continued electrical supply ect. how many times do you see a fuse replaced with tin foil or screws not tightened in plugs fitted by customers. Cables not tightened to cooker terminals or plug socket causing the overheating of the sockets ect this then causes a component failure within the appliance as it will affect the weakest component..thats not a manufacturing defect thats external to the appliance.
So all the manufacturers go back to using 20amp wiring for a 10amp supply and then double the rating for all the components..And the customers are going to buy them..yeah rite and we live in cloud cuckoo land.. Well the political persons do..
Bryan
Re: Another W-T-F Moment In Media
It’s all about limiting the possibilities of fire breaking out. A rare event, true enough AND needs the perfect conditions for it to cause a problem. The defrost timer box catching fire, the fluff saturation against an open wire element, a faulty heater relay on a PCB and plug-in connectors overheating and catching fire. In all cases they simply need the right conditions for it to become a problem.
The subject matter in this thread is plastic backed fridges. Apparently the blow torch won’t ignite the foam, that’s great news. Not those perfect conditions though truth be known. If fire took hold I’d like to think the guy with the torch would be on hand to deal with the situation. I’d like to think also the plumber up in the loft brazing a copper pipe against a rafter would likewise be on hand should there be a problem.
The video “evidence” that the LFB have produced shows, quite clearly, the comparison between the open foam back and the metal enclosed back. It’s not doctored by hollywood in any way in order to mislead. Just time-lapsed footage that shows, to even the most sceptical of you all, the comparison between the two. How can you argue against that pray tell?
Take another look…….
https://youtu.be/Pvko16hqJ7gRe: Another W-T-F Moment In Media
Look at that video Martin.
Spot the glaringly obvious error if you translate that to real life.
K.
Re: Another W-T-F Moment In Media
Oh if only this thread were to be on Twitter (thinking aloud again) 😆
Re: Another W-T-F Moment In Media
300 fires in five years.
27 million homes.
That’s 60 a year.
No evidence or report of what, why, were, when or even if it was a real fire but let’s assume they all are.
That’s a 0.000002{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} chance of it happening to you or anyone else.
Or, if you like, in any given year is if my working is correct, about 0.5 chance in a million.
I like my odds thanks. I’ve got more pressing problems to loose sleep over.
K.
Re: Another W-T-F Moment In Media
kwatt wrote:I like my odds thanks. I’ve got more pressing problems to loose sleep over.
Well for you then Ken. Speaking for myself I will continue to hope further, more comprehensive regulations on appliance safety are put in place. Current regulations don’t go far enough and, thankfully, others more knowledgeable and influential than I can go further in achieving this ideal. Sweet dreams! 😀
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