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Hello,
We have a Smeg FAB32RFA which is a little over 4 years old, and I wondered if I could seek advice here regarding its problems?!
It started with the fridge going ice cold (1deg) and the freezer warming up (not drastically, -16 or so) so we assumed it needed a defrost (the classice, turn it off and on again way of fixing things!). We turned it off and defrosted it, but when we turned it back on it won’t cool at all in either section. No error codes on the panel, lights and fan etc all working but no noise from the compressor.
First engineer to come round said it needed a new compressor and diverter valve, but that wasn’t something they did. We got a second engineer out to replace the compressor, but before he did that he decided to quickly check the refridgerant. He cracked it and nothing came out, no hiss or anything, so he said it’s totally devoid of coolant and therefore must have an internal leak which would be impossible to find. He suspected this was down to poor manufacturing.
However, the fridge has not had any damage (haven’t been chipping ice off with sharp metal tools, anything like that) and I have read that manufacturing issues only cause coolant leaks within the early stages of use — i.e. they don’t start leaking abruptly after a few years. So I’m just seeking advice/opinions as to whether this diagnosis sounds reasonable, as I guess an internal leak means it’s impossible to fix as the whole gas system would need replacing?
Clearly most people would just have bought a new fridge by this point, but it was quite a pricey unit (even on the very special deal we got it at) so am trying to explore all possibilities of fixing before chucking it, as at only 4 years old it seems like a waste, and we certainly can’t justify replacing it like-for-like!
Any thoughts welcome – basically do we give up or are there any other options worth persuing 🙂
Thanks very much!
Re: Give up on Smeg fridge freezer?
what worries me first is the way the fridge engineer tested for gas. cracking it and listening for a his is definitely not an approved method either for accuracy or the environment.
try looking here for a local engineer
http://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/search/fi … e-engineerif it is lack od gas then your engineer may have made thing worse. If the system is still sealed you can test the pressures and add a bit of gas to see what happens. so the new engineer would have to evacuate all the air and replace the dryer. Hopefully when he does a vacuum test it will show up a leak. if there is a leak then finding it and curing it may or may not be possible
Dave
Re: Give up on Smeg fridge freezer?
Thank you for your reply!
Thing is, how likely is it that it would have developed an internal leak? I thought it was pretty well sealed up in there and leaks only occurred when people damage the pipework. Is there any feasible way that “just” a compressor failure would give the same symptoms?
If it is an internal leak, is that essentially non-fixable? How would you find it without destroying the back panel of the fridge?
Unfortunately in our area we are struggling for choice of engineers, your link for example does not find any where we are.
Re: Give up on Smeg fridge freezer?
if you have a compressor failure then the gas would still be in the system. A reputable engineer would fit a port and test pressures to determine the fault.
A for leaks. The manufacturing process is not without faults so pin holes in joints can sometimes happen. But saying that a small leak will leak gas over time meaning the unit would gradually fail an the compressor would run more often to compensate initially
Dave
Re: Give up on Smeg fridge freezer?
What Dave is trying to put in the nicest possible way is that internal leaks don’t magically appear out of nowhere.
It’s a myth. Often one used by some to avoid repairing a machine properly or, often by some that haven’t the knowledge/skill/experience to diagnose the problem correctly.
Sounds plausible to those that don’t know any better, i.e. customers most often but it’s normally complete and utter horse manure so the attending technician doesn’t have to fix it.
How do I know this, I get info on returns that have “internal leaks” that 99{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} or more do not have such a thing and are successfully repaired and resold by a number of brands. So this is not without foundation by any stretch.
Now, the next thing you need to understand is that people, insurers and manufacturers will not pay for the job to be done properly as it takes time to fix refrigeration and that can be hours worth of work, sometimes even multiple visits as it takes ages to see stuff happening. If nobody will foot the bill, the guys will have little option but to find a way out of saying to you, not as bluntly as I will, that they don’t get paid appropriately to actually repair the product and that the cost to do so, will often run to £200+ which is all too often more than the machine is worth.
But the whole gas thing is explained here:
http://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/help/fix- … gerant-gas
Fact is, the unit almost certainly will not have an internal leak as, if it’s an R600a based system if it did, it’d have failed long, long ago… within days of purchase.
Getting good fridge repairers is hard these days as most are not especially well trained or versed in how they actually work. In the bad old days it took two years to make a fridge guy, these days you’re lucky if they get 2-6 weeks training then let loose on the world.
The modern consumerist throwaway society at work I’m afraid.
Not enough repairs so, not enough repairers and not enough experience of doing it coupled with not enough money to train people and not enough money in repairs to fix them properly.
K.
Re: Give up on Smeg fridge freezer?
Internal gas leaks do happen, corrosion in the pipework buried in the insulation is something I see on many makes of units, old and relatively new, cheap or expensive, it makes no difference and they cannot be repaired. I agree that a valve should have been fitted to test the system pressure, NOT SNAP OFF the pipe and guess that it was out of gas, as most systems on R600a have only a few grams of gas in the system and then listening for a hiss is beyond belief. I will add that R600a although flammable is environmentally friendly.
Re: Give up on Smeg fridge freezer?
Generally, without an external factor in effect, copper will not leak or become porous for at least 20-25 years. Well beyond the expected working life of most any domestic refrigeration unit.
Faulty joints maybe but very rare given most internal pipework have none to mitigate that risk. And again, a leaky joint will show up in days or weeks, not years later unless it’s been physically damaged in some way. Internally to damage it involves piercing a pipe on most, somehow.
In other words and I’m merely stating fact not being argumentative, holes in pipes do not appear as if by magic without cause.
And yes, pumping more gas into it is not only a fool’s errand but also potentially dangerous as has been proven a few times.
You seen the stats from the like of Liebherr and others Tony, it’s scary?
K.
Re: Give up on Smeg fridge freezer?
I agree copper pipes do not generally leak on domestic units, other than a poorly brazed joint in manufacture, these units will be losing the gas the moment they leave the factory, most evaporators are made of aluminium pipe ( not the plate type ) they can and do develop leaks, we are having terrible trouble on many makes of commercial units leaking refrigerant from the system coils, and these are made of copper tube, No I have not seen any stats from any manufacturers on refrigerant leaks on their systems, Liebherr who I have worked for as a service provider for 19 years have a very low percentage of internal leaks, from what I see on a daily basis.
But not all the pipework on fridges is copper and aluminium there is also ferrous metals that make up the condenser and frame heat exchange pipework which can and does rust in certain ambient conditions or if subjected to moisture. I base my comments on having been repairing refrigeration for 46 years all makes and types.Re: Give up on Smeg fridge freezer?
Yup, mix metals, exposed to stuff they ought not to be and sure, that’ll happen.
But, there is *always* cause.
K.
Re: Give up on Smeg fridge freezer?
Hard to get trained engineers now as most have retired or nearing retirement age.
I would certainly recommend retirement.
Great just sitting relaxing in this weather.
Bob
Re: Give up on Smeg fridge freezer?
So, am I given to understand that it might well not be an internal leak? Is there anything else it could be based on the symptoms?
I hate to chuck the thing out, I mean we got it on a deal but still a new one is £1500 !!! Seems criminal to put it to landfill because noone we call out knows how to even find what the problem is? I mean, we’re not going to replace it like for like due to the $$$ but it seems it would still be worth a couple of hundred quid to fix it if it’s possible, more than people would normally be willing to pay if the fridge was a cheaper model…
However, it seems impossible to find anyone else to come take a look, I’ve exhausted the only 2 I can find who would come out to us…
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