Too much or too little detergent to avoid washing machine smells?

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  • #98217
    Christianne
    Participant

    Is it better to err on the side of underdosing or underdosing detergent in washing machine to avoid stinky residues? I don’t mean huge under or overdosing but just a small amount such as when judging how much to vary the recommended amount.

    I believe liquid detergents are the worst offenders, so presumably it’s better not to use too much liquid detergent -or- would that fail to dissolve fatty dirt and actually create residues?

    Does the same apply to washing powder? I have the impression some of the ingredients in a powder actually dissolves residues (as used in a maintenence wash) but would slightly too much end up contributing to residues?

    #471411
    andyjawa
    Participant

    Well, There is an write-up called ” smelly washing machine” somewhere on this site. But I will tell you what I do and a few ins and outs which I will keep simple ( because if you delved into all this it really isn`t! ). My machine is a Hotpoint WM56 which is second hand and is over 20 years old and has gone wrong twice – since I installed it new for the previous owner, who passed away, all those years ago I now its history 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d}. There are two issues 1) lime / snowy white chalk which may cause problems but smelling is not one of them and 2) bacteria ridden sludge which is the issue with causing smells. My washing gets mega dirty crawling around repairing w/machines every day so I overdose the machine using Surf powder. It does seem that bio liquid causes a fair few problems reference smells but it has more to do with, as with the powder version, the low temperatures recommended as per daft TV commercials based on the rather idiotic idea that you save money which you do not especially if it nukes your machine prematurally.
    “I believe liquid detergents are the worst offenders, so presumably it’s better not to use too much liquid detergent -or- would that fail to dissolve fatty dirt and actually create residues?” So, you can say yes you are right if the detergent is enzyme based meant for low temperature liquid but that might not be true if its a liquid old fashioned ( but good ) non bio liquid with a bleach based detergent of a decent make. It is a combination of heat ( or the lack of it ) and detergent that disperses the fat / dirt deposits. Actually, in reality, the wash cycle loosens the offending dirt / grease and the series of rinsing actually washes the clothes, not necessarily what you may have thought. So, for coloureds most synthetics are washed at 40 degrees using a bio powder and cotton white towels and tea towels at 60 degrees or 60 degrees + using a bleach based powder detergent. All I can and will say is 1) all my work clobber is washed on programme F which is a 50 degree cycle that takes 1 hour finishing off with a 900 short spin. 2) Anything white in the bed linen department that my lodger uses, and this is where things get a bit complicated, she sets on Programme D which is hot fill only with the economy button IN = the machine will wash at 60, 1100 spin OR she sometimes uses D with the the ecomomy button OUT = the machine still fills up with hot water but washes with what it gets given = no heating, 1100 spin. It all depends whether the boilers been on that particular day or not as the case may be. Either way all the washing always comes out just dandy using Surf powder whether at 50 or a possible 60. We do not faff about using non bio higher temperature powder for the whites, where she sometimes adds 2 cap fulls of bleach ( which is theory should kill the enzyms but I can tell you that it all seems to work out very well ).
    “Does the same apply to washing powder? I have the impression some of the ingredients in a powder actually dissolves residues (as used in a maintenence wash) but would slightly too much end up contributing to residues?” Does not seem to make much odds but a good point since a Maintenance wash ( m/wash ) is done without clothes in the machine. And, there is m/washes which are a specific programme on some machines that tumble at 80 rpm inside of normal tumble speed that is about 55 rpm what machines do and don`t no idea without looking it all up!

    The bottom line: This is what I have done on my machine for the last 14 years since I got my paws on it to prevent smells. I have hard water so every 8 weeks this is what I do: I set the machine on D for 60 degrees I use 1 box ( 250 grams ) of Aqua Softna ( trade name ) in the soap draw with 3 CAP ( NOT cups!!! ) fulls of liquid lemon Flash ( 2 quid a large bottle that lasts a year ) and start the machine. 4 years ago the bearing oil seal sounded like a mouse – a precurser of oil seal failure = then bearing failure so decided to dismantle the machine to change offending seal so avoiding any future trouble, point is the machine was and still is spotless except the spider lattice which did have a bit of residue powder but it is no big deal. So, machine is 22 years old, more or less internally spotless, gone ” wrong ” twice, oil seal, and the usually WM failure point: the curse of the top tank springs. I finally have to day that when I first got the machine I carried out 2 modications. A change to a more reliable motor Fhp motor and a tweek to the water level pressure switch to increase the water level on wash up by 6 liters so it washes better, indeed it does!

    #471412
    andyjawa
    Participant

    “I finally have to day that when” should read: Finally, I should point out that…

    This is what happens at 12.25 in the morning!!

    #471413
    Christianne
    Participant

    andyjawa wrote:I will tell you what I do and a few ins and outs which I will keep simple ( because if you delved into all this it really isn`t! ).

    [USER=”19014″]andyjawa[/USER] What a great reply. Thank you for all those points. I’m familiar with the usual advice given here about perventing resdidues and smells with mainteneance washes but here I am wondering about the correct dose of detergent.

    My inclination is to put more in than less (more would stop undissolved dirt sticking to the inside of the machine). I was mainly worried that regularly using too much detergent would cause a build up, not of dirt but detergent.

    You’re explained temperature is the main factor. I can’t wash most laundry higher than 40 degrees but can incvrease the frequency of maintence washes. I’m still not entirely clear if a high temperature works better because it

    (a) kills smelly bacteria
    (b) disolves dirt from clothes
    (c) dissolves detergent.

    Maybe there’s no simple answer!

    #471414
    andyjawa
    Participant

    Higher temperature.

    (a) kills smelly bacteria. Yes it will but you might nuke your clothes in the process as you point out. Mind you all my stuff says wash at 40 but I wash at 50 but then again all my stuff is worthless work clothes that will not last that long in anycase. I presume you do not work repairing lorries, trains or farm equipment, might be a silly comment but I know women who do ( just not in the UK as it just happens to be ).

    (b) dissolves dirt from clothes. Only partly true. Ideally it is bio powder for clothes at 45 or less and non bio for higher temperatures. But that is just a rule of thumb and might now be out of date with all temperature powder / detergent having both an enzyme and bleach based components in the box.

    (c) dissolves detergent. ditto but also depends upon number of rinses. I will mention that the rave going on about 15 minute quick 30 degree washes leads, due to the total misuse of the programme, to all sorts of problems, bad smells being just one of them.

    What this is really all about, other than smells ( and air trap blockages = over filling ), is the protection of the internal drum spider a point I really did not mention ( the aluminium drum support and its molly steel bearing shaft ). There are about 8 different common aluminium alloys out there in normal engineering and some will be better than others in a hostile world that the washing machine is. Trouble is low temperature washing encourages bacteria which speeds up the corrosion of the spider so that it pits and fractures which, and this is the bottom line = new spider = which so oftern = new drum complete = with most Western European machines that have modern sealed tanks as one unit = an expensive quote to replace it = more likely a new machine ( least on the stuff I usually work on )…..and at an early age too e.g. 4 to 6 years irrespective as to the machine`s purchase price in very servere cases. It is the similar situation with a Robin Reliant steering box casing, presumably, in this case, the effect of road salt and rain, shame they didn`t coat them in a varnish.

    The conclusion. If you are happy with your wash outcome at the temperatures you use out of necessity then stick with it. But increase the number of service washes to compensate to once every 5 weeks and, as you point out, this all you can really do.
    Contrary to popular belief washing machines do cost extra money to run, the electricity might only be a measely 30 quid a year but you do have to keep on top of them by internally cleaning; seen some machines in such a terrible state in the past that I refuse to do bearing repairs on them, given I do not charge a callout charge it must be bad but then who wants to get covered in crap…..literally?

    #471415
    Christianne
    Participant

    [USER=”19014″]andyjawa[/USER] Thank you for the trouble you have taken to reply. It’s much appreciated.

    I wash mostly at 40C although I wish my machine had 50C. After your info I won’t worry so much about the quantity of detergent as it doesn’t seem to be the biggest factor.

    I’ll increase the frequency of maintence doses. I prefer to use 400g soda crystals rather than Arial or Persil as detergent foams up out of the machine at 90C whatever amount I use. I also use 250g citric acid at 90C in a separate maintenance wash to keep scale away. Is this best done before or after the soda crystals?

    My guess is afterwards as it’s better to first remove any gunk but, on the other hand, there may be scale protecting gunk and holding it in place but I’m guessing as I can’t picture it properly. What’s your view?

    #471416
    andyjawa
    Participant

    400g soda crystals……..be very careful using this stuff as if you read the packet it will say DO NOT USE ON ALUMINIUM. Your bearing spider will be aluminium and you will damage it in that concentration! I do not know what region you live but it sounds as though you live in a soft water area or maybe have a water softener for the amount of froth you are getting in which case things now change, shame it wasn`t mentioned before.. Reduce the amount of powder / detergent. Stop using the soda crystals, if you want to try the Flash trick use 1 or 2 CAP fulls only and if you really do have soft water you do not need the descaler do you because there should not be any scale?

    #471417
    andyjawa
    Participant

    To add on a re-read. And if, by how you`ve written it, you are using 400 grams of washing soda crystals instead of detergent….don`t. Also Soda crystals acts as a water softenering effect which is why you are getting so much froth and adding Flash is going to be asking for trouble combined so in your case don`t do that either. I do wish people would tell the full story at the very beginning, so full of surprises. All the best to you.

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