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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/03/10/white-goods-will-last-longer-cheaper-run-new-rules/
Apologies if this is paywalled – but I thought i’d ask about how the trade thinks this will affect spares and longevity for white goods – or is it just a law which will make no difference? I can’t see how it may sort out the sealed tub issue for washing machines.
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Replacement parts must be provided to both consumers and repairers for a minimum of seven years, while fresh “eco-design” standards will require products to be built in a way that allows parts to be removed and replaced using common tools.The regulations, which are due to come into force by the summer, are designed to extend the lifespan of appliances by up to a decade and reduce the 1.5 million tonnes of electronic waste the UK sends to landfill each year.
They will apply to electric motors, fridges, dishwashers, washing machines and dryers, electronic displays and televisions, and welding equipment.
———–This will take time but it will make things easier and cheaper. At the moment some manufacturers hide even the fault code information to all but their dedicated engineers which of course come at a premium. Parts to make cheap repairs are sometimes not available. Shark vacuums do not supply a flex so cunsumer has to buy a £70 motor unit, Hotpoint circuit board have no software, so unless as an independant you want to pay for all the programming gear, then only hotpoint can fit them, making it not cost effective and there are lots lots more examples including I had a customer in last week who had broken the door glass on his hotpoint washer. Glass only comes with the whole door at £90
Dave
Yes, I can see the issue here – there will be spares available – but at a price that may not make economic sense. I suppose the devil will be in the detail of the legislation. It is a start at least. The EU framework is this:
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_19_5889
I’m not sure if the UK will mirror this – but it sounds like it. At worst, we can get the information or spares from friendly EU countries.
i cant see a mnufacturer having a different design just for the uk so if we can get it in europe it will be imported
Dave
I think in reality this is what will happen. 1) the price of spare parts will rise as we have seen already leading up to all this but the spin will be it is due to Brexit or if that doesn`t work Covid or both 2) there is no control over spare parts costs what so ever- and it would be very difficult if there were – there is only a set minimum where spares should be available e.g. 10 years in the case of washing machines and dishwashers. 3) there is no price set for trade repair information manuals, so a workshop manual could cost 10 bob or 10 quid or 100 quid and since it`ll be copyrighted it will be illegal to pass that info on to third parties i.e. on this very site so that is not a plus. 4) as a plus it should force Far East manufacturers especially to raise their game with regards to a spare parts supply i.e. to supply a customer within 15 days of a part purchase but what about if under warranty though where no money exchanges – which how I read it and whether the replacement part will be of the same longivity of the original part but at a higher price is a dubious point too 5) I have not seen any info regarding the banning of alternative / pattern parts so that is good, well, for the time being at least 6) a newer version of what was the old original but redrafted A to G energy rating system rather than all this A++++ nonsense 7) common tools to repair machine is a bit ambiguous to say the least: never come across tri-wing screws for washing machines but equally someone, a manufacturer, could equally argue that the tool is common even though it is very uncommon as presently seen in the context of what is fitted now i.e. mainly torx, phillips and the rarely used old style flat blade screws.
My very brief reading I conclude that a) that the machines have the possibility to last longer** but b) it will, given the need for spare parts, cost the owner more money to achieve it, leading to c) that the premature scrapping of machines based on a higher cost of repair may well make matters worse and not better which inturn leads us to d) there will be more new machines bought so no one will be better off except the manufacturers. e) which makes a mockery as to the whole purpose of the new ruling right from the very start ! ** just because a machine is more eco friendly does not mean it will last longer in fact I think that it is the opposite: the MORE eco friendly a machine is the Shorter time it will last
What are your own muses?we will have to see what happens but yes i have seen silly priced spares
have seen Hoover do it. If they want to make a spare obsolete but the machine is not that old they stock 2 or 3 and ramp the price so no one will buy it. that way they can say spares are available but just omit they are not a viable option
Dave
andyjawa wrote:a newer version of what was the old original but redrafted A to G energy rating system rather than all this A++++ nonsense
Already in operation albeit we have double labelling until the 1st April. On average the A+++ washing machines will now be D rated. This will allow for new technology to improve the ratings.
Don
Whosh….! Damn it hit the wretched Planet Earth parallel dimension switching button; that`s just typical!
“This will allow for new technology to improve the ratings” yep and with it a whole host of complexity along with it too e.g. V-ZUG`s heat pump WASHING MACHINE which I cannot see too many members of the public tackling one of those things without truly cocking it up. In other words a self defeating idealology within the world of Right to Repair that either will change nothing, or as more than is likely, will make things worse and not better. From my point of view, which in this industry counts for less than the pet cat`s view on, well, anything and everything, the way forward would be a modern revamped version of the hot and cold fill Hotpoint WM56: easy to fix, reliable, reasonable quality ( compared to todays efforts ) even my customers might be able to repair the brute without screwing things up like they are apt to do and if there were only 4 versions on a theme with mostly interchangeable parts that in itself would cut down production costs, cuts down on waste, cuts down on choice and should cut down the price of repairs BUT increases by default the quality due to and based on competition….I can here all the appliance industry boses crying from here and most already have got through 3 boxes of kleenex tissues and that was only by reading to the end of second line above!. That is not 4 versions just by Hotpoint that is only 4 versions by competing manufacturers and their sudsidary companies by law. Should do it for cars too whether petrol, electric, clockwork or rubber band powered. In other words instead of a technological way forward it might be better if everyone took a step backwards and ask what do I really need to successfully wash my clothes and that should the machine fail I can either have a very good chance at a successful home DIYrepair or if not there is the nice repair man / young lady out who knows how to repair it for a reasonable fee.
Repair manuals. The only free to download repair manuals in English I have found are via Chinese manufacturers, so, though I hate to say it, good on them; presently you will not get the time of day out of the vast majority of European manufacturers. In the future I would not put it past some Western European manfacturers to willing produce repair manuals but in the spirit of the new rulings in Medieval Slavic Script ( not quite as helpful as planned ) and as far as is known their is nothing to stop them from doing so.Suddenly we are transported back to our dimension and reality but are we all sure you really want to go back there?
No. What I feel damn sure about is the costs have risen and will continue to rise. I can also foresee the banning of pattern parts so it all comes inline with a New Improved Germany e.g. a non appliance example: Le Citroen AX ignition switch £25 in England in NIG £215…point made. The trade and the public will just be taken for a ride to somewhere they are going to regret!
[USER=”19014″]andyjawa[/USER], totally agree with everything you have said. With respect to your Hotpoint washing machine example, yes, why can’t we have a nice basic machine that just does what it needs to do – ie washes cloths. It doesn’t need to be high-tech to do the job well, and as you say a simple, quailty machine will last longer and be repairable when required. I suspect the problem we have got ourselves into is that machines are so comparatively cheap nowadays that the manufacturers need to keep shifting high volumes to make a decent profit. I would much rather pay more for a well built but simple machine if I knew it was going to last.
I am going to be in this dilemma soon with my dishwasher, as my current Bosch (a mere 21 years old, bless it) is looking like it will soon need to be retired. Looking at current models I’m struggling to find a simple but robust machine. Most of the ‘high end’ ones seem to have lots of features and complexity that I neither want nor need, and I’m not convinced that the build quality is that much better than something like a basic Beko machine for example. I’m also horrified that the ‘eco’ programmes now take in excess of 3 hours to run whereas my current Bosch takes about 1.5 hours. It’s little wonder that things don’t last as long if they are running for twice the amount of time on each use. I just want something simple that does a decent job of washing the dishes and doesn’t take all day to do it, but perhaps that is too much to ask!!Thanks. “I would much rather pay more for a well built but simple machine if I knew it was going to last.
I am going to be in this dilemma soon with my dishwasher, as my current Bosch (a mere 21 years old, bless it) is looking like it will soon need to be retired. Looking at current models I’m struggling to find a simple but robust machine”A list little list of observations
Dishwashers, hmm. Well all I can tell you is that I gave up most dishwasher repairs irrespective of make/brand having had so many new replacement part failures and the worst between ages 2 to 8 years old was….Bosch with the very common e09 heater failure. Even the Curry`s Chinese Essentials was thrice as reliable at half the price – even though I officially gave up on the major players in the dishwasher game I still go out to a couple ( that means 4 ) of Essentials as many are NOT the revamped Indesit redesigned machines but are more akin to some Kenwood designs which are generally much easier to work on. The old SMS – had “ff” in the model code – Bosch dishwashers which were very well made ( not to be confused with the newer dreaded SMS stuff ) were brilliant with a wash motor and the original Sole outlet pumps lasting 25+ years if well looked after, went and repaired one as a special one off repair in March this year – heater failure, officially obsolete but irca still make one that fits. Some newer dishwashers are complex pieces of kit, I`m convinced this is a stupid and unnecessary way to go. I mean how difficult is it to make a poxy dishwasher?
Machines that are built like a tank are sometimes, and strangely, disappointingly unreliable!
One of the best washing machines was a Creda / Hoover hibrid, the one from the very late 70s / 1981 with the sloping instrument panel commonly in brown or light blue ( whereas the ones that came immediately after that series were a pile of junk- mostly early bearing failure and a swine to repair ). That machine was fairly lightly built, as is a Hotpoint WM56, but could last decades until the aluminium backplate rotted out, an AEG motor helped and of course it was all pre microproccessor using a decent grade of electronics instead of the usual cheap rubbish that is so often seen today…..and a lot of those machines are not cheap either.
Wash times. It is trully pathetic the state of affairs these days 220 minutes to do a 40 /60 degree cotton wash you`d be looking at either picking up ya pension pot or even a pine box before the bloody things finish the programme; what are they thinking?
Also washing machine low water levels is not clever! This can adversely affect the bearing /bearing housing by basically never being douced with water to get shot of hardening detergent froth/dirt which then nukes the bearing oil seal. Remember the old Phillips machines from the late 70s with the high water levels that span and pumped out at the same time – very few suffered bearing problems ( or whiffy smells ) because of it.
Basic Beko washing machines = very good very good value with reasonable spares` costs should you need `em. A great deal of them are actually made in China especially the entry level machines which are simple basic good machines with brush motors ( very muchremind me of some Amica Chinese entry level machines but with cheaper spares than Amica`s sense of humour pricing ) without that ridiculous dc module BUT most have long wash programmes BUT some have eco button /speed wash which are ok. Some of the more adventerous Beko models I would not recommend having lost the plot and become gimmicky and overly complex with it.
I refuse to sell machines and even if I wanted to I would hardly be in a position, as a very small trader, to even price match and make any money = totally pointless bothering..
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