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Re: Advice and opinions appreciated
Given I said it was a big empty box, the answer to that question would obviously be, no. 😉
K.
Re: Advice and opinions appreciated
Oh for goodness sakes Martin.
An empty factory.
Do you want me to draw you pictures as well?
K.
Re: Advice and opinions appreciated
No that’s OK, there’s no need to go to those lengths Ken, there really isn’t. It’s just that, until the OP raised the point about ISE relocating, I had no idea they were. And subsequently found out that Gorenje were the parent company and put two and two together, rightly or wrongly. And maths for me has never been a strong point anyway.
Re: Advice and opinions appreciated
I really do hope that the quality of build and reliability are not affected by this move, i really do. Look what electrolux did to AEG after they were gifted the company by Neff, when Neff was taken into BSH.
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http://www.kitchenkitsw.comRe: Advice and opinions appreciated
There’s a lot of people making sure it doesn’t.
However, just to be sure, I will be out there this year to see for my own eyes and, quite probably, before we accept any product after the move.
The laugh is, it’s so serious that they’re even moving the powder coating stuff and using that. The level of detail is actually quite reassuring really.
K.
Re: Advice and opinions appreciated
DrDill wrote:I really do hope that the quality of build and reliability are not affected by this move, i really do. Look what electrolux did to AEG after they were gifted the company by Neff, when Neff was taken into BSH.
Exactly, it is all too common and is in fact a longterm mistake made by the new parent company.
kwatt wrote:There’s a lot of people making sure it doesn’t.
However, just to be sure, I will be out there this year to see for my own eyes and, quite probably, before we accept any product after the move.
The laugh is, it’s so serious that they’re even moving the powder coating stuff and using that. The level of detail is actually quite reassuring really.
K.
Some people may find such actions ridiculous, though as a tradesman who stakes his reputation with certain manufacturers, such actions affirm your faith in them.
Regarding the White Knight Eco models, my only concern is durability/quality which is the unknown quantity for me. What worries me is that the top model (Eco 86a) is in a cheap price bracket for something that should last. I have seen them range from £290-330, around £120 more than the cheapest 7kg models. Everything else concerning them is a selling point for a specific part of the market. From my point of view only 30{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of gas users would see a real benefit in having one of these. Firstly the customer would have to be a high user, in excess of 90 cycles a year and they would need a location that can not only be accessed by a gas supply, but one that also satisfies ventilation and service requirements. Installation cost can be considerably reduced by tying the work in with other work that is already planned. I have compared running costs with all A,B and C rated models; even Siemens A-50{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} 7kg model is slightly more expensive per 1400rpm cupboard dry cycle. I believe also that currently the Eco 86a has the fastest cupboard dry cycle? I have customers that would have these installed, in fact it was a retired couple who have different sets of grandchildren staying every wkd or so that first question me about these models. Again, my basic problem is durability. From your collective experiences could the bulk of these models perform 1000-1200 cycles with 1-2 breakdowns? I do not trust ‘customer reviews’ that I have read on-line.
I think I shall be purchasing an ISE before the autumn. Is it a local independent I buy from? I have read that there is a Delivery/installation fee, which I am happy to pay, but can I still install it still or because of the warranty does the agent absolutely have to install it?
Regarding Liebherr, what do you consider the average life span is for these, based on experience. Also, can you independents repair these easily without obstruction or is the arrangement similar to Miele’s. Thankyou
Re: Advice and opinions appreciated
You’re correct.
For most people a gas dryer or to a slightly lesser degree heat pump dryer is probably not such a great bet but people do get sidetracked by the whole “save a fortune” energy argument.
The only reason I say heat pump to a lesser degree is the massively lower installation outlay. Couple it with a long lifespan and it makes sense. Short lifespan and it doesn’t.
What the duty cycle ratings are for the White Knight I’ve no clue as they’re not published although I wouldn’t expect it to be brilliant given the price points.
K.
Re: Advice and opinions appreciated
kwatt wrote:You’re correct.
For most people a gas dryer or to a slightly lesser degree heat pump dryer is probably not such a great bet but people do get sidetracked by the whole “save a fortune” energy argument.
The only reason I say heat pump to a lesser degree is the massively lower installation outlay. Couple it with a long lifespan and it makes sense. Short lifespan and it doesn’t.
What the duty cycle ratings are for the White Knight I’ve no clue as they’re not published although I wouldn’t expect it to be brilliant given the price points.
K.
That is my concern. Ta
Anymore thoughts regarding the ISE install (I’D still pay regardless) and the Liebherr query.
Re: Advice and opinions appreciated
The installation is to ensure that the machine is in, working and the transit bolts are out etc.
Dead simple reason, 80{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d}+ of all calls placed in the first three months of ownership of any brand I’ve seen stats for are installation or customer education calls, for ISE that’s a lot higher. We can eliminate one element of it almost entirely and, it’s then our problem and not the customers to ensure that it is correct.
Liebherr is the best domestic refrigeration you can buy at sensible money IMO.
It’s impossible to nail down the actual life as there are so many variables, like use, where it is and so on but I’d normally expect it to see into the teens at least.
K.
Re: Advice and opinions appreciated
Hello again.
I would like to know if the ‘Find a dealer search’ on the I.S.E website is currently up to date. The nearest stockist/dealer is Beech End Electronics which unfortunately a fair trip away via a notoriously traffic ravaged route. I would like to come and view the appliance and am surprised that in and around the heavily populated area I live there is nothing closer; surely a gap to fill! There is another company that is extremely close, though there is no mention of a shop (think he is a repairman) and I called the number in the summer for some info but no answer.
Anyone with an appliance to see in the BN area, TaRe: Advice and opinions appreciated
I have some queries regarding the W288eco and the warranty exemptions. Firstly are the main differences between the W228eco and the W256w restricted to the eco’s hot fill and its spin speed, 1800rpm versus 1600rpm. I ask as the Eco is £200 more than the standard model.
Would the Eco be suitable regarding location and savings for my property? The location is currently next to (and down) from my combination boiler location; the hot water draw off would be within 300mm of the machine so only the hose would dictate the draw-off lag.
For the warranty/guarantee I have two queries. I was looking into the 10 year policy exclusions; can someone please shed more light on the damage resulting from the removal of glass and plastic regarding filters, drum paddles etc ?
Also in 5 years or so (I hope) an extension will take place which will see the relocation of the kitchen and therefore the washing machine; how will this affect the 10 year guarantee?
If I decide on either I.S.E model, will there be in any change in install price as quoted on the main site due to my location?
Have looked at V-zugs, for the money their 2-year warranty does not cut mustard. Miele keeps on coming back into the frame, a customer I finished with in Sept has a washing machine and Tumble dryer from them since 1989. They both are in use daily (due to cancer she uses the tumble dryer over clothes line as its less of a struggle for her) with only one fault with the washing machine door in 24 years, to be honest they look as new as the day they went in!Re: Advice and opinions appreciated
Lots of questions in there. 😉
The warranty covers failure of mechanical or electrical components but it doesn’t extend to anything other than that. You will struggle to find a manufacturer warranty that is very, if any, different.
If you want to pay, over the same period, about £1-1200 for a warranty alone, you can get greater cover but even in that there are limitations. Sounds great to many people though as it’s “only” £8-10 a month.
You can hook the Eco up to a combi boiler but, how effective it would be is very dependent on the installation and the efficiency of the boiler, largely how quickly it delivers hot water and the vast bulk of them don’t do it quickly enough. That’s why we will normally tell people they’re better off saving and getting the W256 if the installation isn’t suitable.
Miele’s are good machines and, like any high end one, looked after they will last for an age and retain their looks as well.
The new V-Zug machine at over £3000 (I’m told) is a bit OTT for normal domestic though.
K.
Re: Advice and opinions appreciated
Thanks K.
The boiler has a comfort mode where I can keep the hot water pre heated from 30-60 degrees. I tried to look for info regarding initial fill consumption but could not find anything, 40 degrees should enter the machine within 5-7 litres of water; I’d imagine that would not prove wasteful? In the future after relocation, the hot water would come from an unvented cylinder though distances etc would remain the same.
I was looking at the Eco’s programme chart for energy consumption, I take it that the kw quoted for each cycle is based on cold fill only. If using preheated hot water what would be a rough percentage reduction in energy consumption providing all criteria is met; I have seen 70{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} quoted?
Regarding the warranty, I naturally understand due my own profession as to what you are saying. I just wanted to know what was meant in English regarding the exemption example I mentioned.
For example does it mean that if the drum paddles were being replaced and in the process plastic/ glass was damaged that said broken items would not fall under the warranty?
Also, if the machine was relocated in time whilst in warranty, would I have to contact ISE to arrange re-commissioning at charge?
As mentioned, I would like to see the machines before purchasing. I know of one company, I think they post here, who have a workshop not far my brothers in the Stansted area. I will contact them to see if a viewing is possible. I live in a heavily populated area of the south coast, though there are only two ISE suppliers remotely near me. Would this effect installation cost?I am serious on the ISE machines but I do need my queries answered/resolved as these would be long term buys given the costs. I am thankful for all answers given so far. Please bear in mind that if I am taken with the ISE you would get long term trade from me due to my own customer base.
I cannot fathom who V-Zug markets to at that price! From my experience the wealthy mainly spend huge sums on emotive items, form over function. That will not be tempting Miele’s client base
who from experience are far from rich, just sensible.Re: Advice and opinions appreciated
Okay, you’re getting a little bit more technical. 😉
The Eco does a burst of cold, roughly about 5 seconds, to clear the dispenser of detergent. It has to as many detergents are hugely degraded if exposed to hot water in that way and then they will not work correctly. After that it will switch to hot fill.
How much water is taken on the first burst is entirely down to water pressure I’m afraid as there is no metering system. It overcomplicates and TBH is just something else to break and, ultimately, not really required.
Then the amount of hot taken will depend on the load size and absorbency of the load. It is a wholly dynamic process so you cannot really measure the volume of water accurately as every load will be different in real world use. In broad terms, yes you can measure but you can see why that, if the load is dynamic and variable, then measuring the volume of water required that also has to vary to accommodate that particular load is difficult at best.
This is why I would say that your assumption is pretty much correct but with the above caveats taken into consideration or, as the famous cliche goes, results may vary dependent on conditions.
The reduction in energy figures are factory tests and are as good as you can get using a geo-thermal community hot water distribution system fully lagged to point of dispensation. To my knowledge there is only one of those in the UK, down Bournmouth way if I recall. Whether that is achievable with a tanked or boiler system I’d question let alone anyone else, I’d reckon a 40-50{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} saving was perfectly achievable though but, again, dependent on the installation and other conditions.
Drum paddles are a thing that we have only ever had broken by people trying to remove them to get stuff out. To be fair, as far as I know, every single person has been honest enough to just tell us and we’ve just sent out a replacement FOC even although, technically, it shouldn’t be covered.
If you smacked them all up washing shoes or whatever that may turn out different as to break any more than one, that’s the only possible explanation.
You would find it very, very hard to break anything else. The only time we ever seem to get asked for door glasses is in commercial use where users just smash them. I don’t recall ever seeing one used in domestic premises on an Asko built machine, as in, never in 20 years plus.
If the machine was moved then no, you wouldn’t have to have the machine recommissioned but do put the transit straps back in before tipping it just in case as things go wrong if you don’t and it’s tipped on the back or sides for example. Obviously if there was a problem that arose from that then the warranty technically wouldn’t cover it.
What each dealer charges for delivery and installation we have no say in or control over I’m afraid, it’s entirely up to them so I can’t help you with that bit.
K.
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