Are Chest Freezers no longer suitable for Garages ?

[anotherfinemess]

Re: Are Chest Freezers no longer suitable for Garages ?

It says this in my Liebherr Manual:
Climate rating
The appliance is set to operate within specific ambient temperature limits according to its climate rating. These temperature limits should not be exceeded. The correct climate rating for your appliance
is indicated on the type plate.
Climate rating Ambient temperatures
SN up to + 32 °C
N up to + 32 °C
ST up to + 38 °C
T up to + 43 °C

And on the website:
Liebherr-household appliances meet all essential, valid technical specifications, wherever they may be installed. In various markets therefore, only appliances from the respective suitable ranges can be delivered.

Don’t know if that helps, though Liebherr did install it in our garage without comment.

Does anyone know about the liquid viscosity thing?

Thanks
Adrian

[kwatt]

Re: Are Chest Freezers no longer suitable for Garages ?

don wrote:Hmm not so sure. I just had a look at about a dozen random machines and all the Beko products are all SN climate class which is good down to +10, methinks someone is trying to pull the wool……… or am I just being too cynical :rolls:

If I were to guess, no, you’re not.

I would imagine the equation will run…

How many are likely to fail if we say this? What will replacing them cost? But, how many more will we sell because we do it and nobody else does?

Then, when it does all go South it’s the service department’s problem to sort out! As usual!

Marketing guys…. gotta love ’em. 😉

In short you pays your money and takes your chances I reckon. If it works, great. And, if it doesn’t well…

As for the viscosity of the compressor oil, that’s a new one on me. Normally compressor oil is a very light and high quality oil as it is designed to be there for years operating at a “reasonable” temperature and, even in cold conditions, the friction of the the motor running should still transfer heat into the oil I’d think. I wouldn’t think it would be a huge concern.

That said, I don’t know how this would affect some of the new linear compressors which are needed for the silly A++ or whatever energy ratings.

The biggest danger still IMO is the one I have seen many times in cold outbuildings and basements up here, condensation on the cabinet leading to all manners of failure. They will all (usually) operate to lower ambients than advertised but how much lower is the question to which there is no universal answer I’m afraid.

HTH

K.

[nellymc]

Re: Are Chest Freezers no longer suitable for Garages ?

Whirlpool state the following
Will a freezer work properly if it is very cold or hot in my garage?
Answer
You must have the temperature set properly. Temperatures should not go below 40°F or hotter than 100°F for proper operation. If temperatures are lower than 40°F your thermostat may not allow the product to turn on based on colder than normal temperatures. The warmer the ambient temperature is (above 100°F) the more the product will run, and it
will be less efficient.

Looks like Whirlpool claim ok to 40 Deg F which is 4.44 Deg C

[nellymc]

Re: Are Chest Freezers no longer suitable for Garages ?

Just had a response from Hotpoint re chest freezers

“Hello

No sorry our chest freezers will not operate below +16 degrees C.

Regards“

Cheers
N

[ELDAR59]

Re: Are Chest Freezers no longer suitable for Garages ?

that’s all well and good, but in practice a freezer will work in a garage, we all know that.
the 16c thing spoken about is the lower parameter of the n climate class and not many manufacturers will cover an appliance operating outside of it’s intended operating conditions, i.e. it’s climate class.
i have a freezer in my garage and yet in my job, i’m having to talk to people about climate class almost every day just recently.

the only real problem in my experience, with a freezer in a garage is, as ken has already alluded to, the condensation that can occur on the outside of the cabinet.

[EFS]

Re: Are Chest Freezers no longer suitable for Garages ?

I bought a Zannussi ZCF57 chest freezer several years ago and there was some kind of grant if you scpapped an older freezer £40 if memory serves.
It was marketed as energy efficient and the cabinet and lid are 10 cm thick.
It was floating round my garage during the floods of 2007 and is still in perfect working order.

It’s been down to -8 lately and no condensation at all.

Maybe they don’t make them like that any more. 🙁

Steve

[spimps]

Re: Are Chest Freezers no longer suitable for Garages ?

Freezers will run in garages no problem,condensation may be a fault that ensues but not always the case.
The problem with the oil is not so much the viscosity but that if a compressor doesn’t run and remains cold for a while(wouldn’t be the case with freezers,unless ambient was -16c or lower)is that refrigerant migrates into the oil,causing compressor problems.
For this reason compressor crankcases on outdoor units supplying walk in fridges or cellar cooling are usually fitted with a crankcase heater to prevent it by keeping the oil at a set temp which is usually run off a thermoatat.

[nellymc]

Re: Are Chest Freezers no longer suitable for Garages ?

So reading all of this a Zanussi ZFC328WBB will work and stay frozen in my garage even during the winter, in central scotland but the warranty may be void if i keep it in a garage. ❓

[don]

Re: Are Chest Freezers no longer suitable for Garages ?

nellymc wrote:So reading all of this a Zanussi ZFC328WBB will work and stay frozen in my garage even during the winter, in central scotland but the warranty may be void if i keep it in a garage. ❓

Reading this thread again from the start, I think it`s fair to say that a freezer should work in your garage. However no guarantee can be given that condensation will not appear and that the appliance could play up if the temperature in the garage falls below the ambient temperature for a sustained period of time. As you say the guarantee may be void for these reasons.

I`m sitting on the fence in the absence of any scientific proof to the contrary 😉

HTH 🙂

Don

[gandh1]

Re: Are Chest Freezers no longer suitable for Garages ?

the guidance our ref engineer has given us when selling refrigeration for outhouses is the following:

a lot of the issues are down to the dampness of the room.

many garages now are incorporated into the house, whereas older garages were purely standalone. this is what makes the difference

where the garages have one of their largest sides against the main home, and have been insulated, you will find residual heat keeping the air noticibly dryer, therefore in some garages a single door appliance will be fine, even if the ambience drops below the recommended class.

some properties have simple bricks and roof garages, with wafer thin fittings and poorly fitting doors, that then have no regulation over humidty. if you have the appliance sited in one of these then you will tend to have more issues

from a repair perspective the number of calls from customers with r600 gassed ref in outhouses, far outweigh those with the older r134 and cfc gassed ref! dont ask me why its beyond my knowledge.

all we recommend for 0* ambient operation are static hotpoints, 4* for static beko, and 10* for static bosch. most chinese made (lec, frigidaire, etc) are 14* ambient and over…

[anotherfinemess]

Re: Are Chest Freezers no longer suitable for Garages ?

Thanks everyone for your help.

I guess that’s a level of risk I can live with, it wouldn’t look good in the lounge anyway.

Adrian

[John_Ha]

Re: Are Chest Freezers no longer suitable for Garages ?

I have been doing a little research.

EDIT Have a look at Installation Advice – Fridges & Freezers In Garages Or Outhouses at http://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/modules.p … ge&pid=182 END EDIT

First, let us ignore the problem with combined fridge/freezers with only one compressor. They should never be installed in garages (or unheated kitchens) if only because when the ambient temperature gets too cold (eg switch off the central heating while you are away over Christmas) you may find the freezer has defrosted on your return because the fridge hasn’t got warm enough to cause the compressor to run. Also let’s ignore the valid concern about condensation causing rust on the case – it does, but I can live with that in a garage. Whether condensation is likely to form on, or drip onto, the electrics and be a safety hazard is another question …

What we are worried about is “Will the freezer operate when the ambient temperature in the garage is low? If so, will it operate without damaging it or me? What is the lowest ambient temperature that the freezer will work at? What freezers are suitable for use in a garage?” It is VERY difficult to find definitive answers to these questions.

There seem to be several pointers

1 Some posts say that the compressor oil gets too thick and this shortens the life of the compressor. Or that refrigerant dissolves into the oil. Or that the refrigerant gas itself doesn’t work at low temperatures.

Some USA Kenmore fridges are fitted with an auxiliary heater which attaches to the compressor and heats it (and the oil?). See http://www.kenmore.com and find fridge Model 60722 which says “Featuring an auxilliary heater, this all-refrigerator can be used indoors or in unheated locations like the garage or basement” and “This all-refrigerator is designed to operate in unheated locations down to an ambient temp of 10 degF [= minus 12C]. No more worries your fresh food will freeze in a cold garage”. So it works in a garage. Google Kenmore garage kit and you will find lots of information.

However, none of the Kenmore chest freezers on their web site claim to have an auxiliary heater and be suitable for garages. I am guessing but perhaps this is because freezers have to work with the gas at a much lower temperature than fridges so even an auxiliary heater won’t work.

EDIT. Google Kenmore garage kit or similar for lots of stuff about garage kits. A garage kit for a Frigidaire fridge can be seen at http://www.repairclinic.com/SSPartDetai … &PPStack=1. It is Part No 1037646 and says “Garage refrigerator heater kit. This kit is designed for Frigidaire top freezer refrigerators placed in garages or basements where the temperature drops as low as 34 degrees Fahrenheit. *Note: Refrigerator MUST have been built in or after 2001 for the kit to work.” It wraps round the compressor. END EDIT

2 Beko seems to claim some of their Fridge Freezers work down to -15C.

For example, the Beko Refigeration Brochure (available at beko.co.uk says the Beko Combi Fridge Freezer / Frost Free Model CDA648F “Operates in cold ambient temperatures down to –15°C (e.g. suitable for garages)”. Before you congratulate yourself on having found what you want, look at the spec at the end of the brochure which say the CDA648F is Climate Class SN. Now SN is 10C min to 32C max!! The other classes are N is 16C to 32C; ST is 18C to 38C and T is 18C to 43C. So Climate Class SN works in the coldest ambient but still not enough for an unheated garage. If I read their brochure correctly, Beko appears to be confused.

3 I went to Comet and looked at individual freezers. The HOTPOINT RC17P says “Suitable for use in outbuildings” so I go off to the Hotpoint site and download the brochure which does not give Climate Class or minimum ambient for any freezer. However, deep in the small print I find “For climate class information and advice such as whether your appliance is suitable for use in an outbuilding or location other than a kitchen, please call our product information team on 08000 92 19 22“.

My conclusions? There are obviously valid reasons why a freezer should not be operated in a garage and if it does not explicitly say “Suitable for use in a garage” then it almost certainly isn’t and should not be used in a garage. Many people will say “but mine works OK in the garage …” but I would hazard a guess that those killed by condensation on the electrics won’t be among them.

If you really want to be safe and certain, then contact the manufacturer and ask them which models are suitable for use in a garage and why.

And please – if you do find one, post back here to help all of us.

[brookhaven]

Re: Are Chest Freezers no longer suitable for Garages ?

Hi,

Having read most of the blogs on this subject it seems clear that there appears to be no definitive answer.

Older freezers seem to be OK, but it is the newer ones that have the problem with cold exterior environments. Certainly our Fridge/freezer we bought a couple of years ago defrosted during cold weather when in the garage.

It occurred to me, therefore, to look for a commercial freezer as an alternative.

One web site that popped up was

http://www.alexanders-direct.co.uk/chest.html

selling Vestfrost freezers which they claim has a “Skin Condenser (Ideal for Garages and Out-Buildings)”.

On a trip to Currys this morning the only freezer they recommended was the BEKO TZDA627FW (£280) as this had twin compressors (it is an upright freezer with a fast freeze section).

John Lewis also advertise freezers that work on garages.

Hope that helps.

[don]

Re: Are Chest Freezers no longer suitable for Garages ?

brookhaven wrote:
Having read most of the blogs on this subject it seems clear that there appears to be no definitive answer.

That does seem to be the case by looks of it.

I guess if it works in your locale then you have got a good one. Trouble is you are not going to know until you have made the purchase.

The BEKO TZDA627FW you mention has a single compressor like all other upright freezers of that range, the fast freeze option is available on most upright freezers nowadays as well.

I don`t know where Curry`s got that info from, could it be the salesman telling you what you wanted to hear in order to get a sale ❓ I hope not.

Don

[Martin]

Re: Are Chest Freezers no longer suitable for Garages ?

brookhaven wrote:Having read most of the blogs on this subject it seems clear that there appears to be no definitive answer.

And whilst those “blogs” are indeed extremely informative, few have touched on the basic facts that here in the UK the ambient temperature variant of the average garage, from high to low is marginal. And for the most part within the specification (ambient tolerance) capabilities of most chest and upright freezers.

The typical ‘garage’, no longer capable or large enough toward storing a car, performs the modern role as the household junk room and garden shed. Within this modern storage enclave a host of toy boxes, bikes, lawn mowers and recycling throw-outs. Statistically within this cavern of wonder the temperature hardly varies from one month to the next. Well chilly in mid-January and it bit stuffy in July, for sure, but overall hardly a crisis for even the cheapest freezer these days to survive in.

So “Are Chest Freezers no longer suitable for Garages ? The answer is that if you can squeeze it in amongst the junk you have in there already then it should work perfectly well. 😀

[Author]

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