- This topic has 25 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 2 years, 4 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Had this washer dryer for quite a few years now and apart from having to replace a set of motor brushes its been ok. Today during the wash phase of a 40 degree wash we smelt an obvious burning smell and then saw acrid very feint smoke coming from washer. The smell was so bad we had to open doors and windows just to be able to stay in the kitchen.
I removed the rear cover but no sign of anything wrong and then using the red tag to open the door found the clothes wet but no smell within the drum. checked the waste pump and drained off a little water from the drain pipe at the base. Again nothing wrong seen. Checked the drum bearings, motor and again nothing found and no smell from them.
Ran the remainder of the cycle (or attempted to!) with no smoke but the programme seemed all wrong and would only end at 1 minute to go and then the function would start again. Tried just a spin and rinse and this did the same.
I figured by now the control panel to be at fault so removed it to find lots of soot near a coil on the board but on lightly brushing it away there were no signs of burnt components or failed solder joints etc. and no obvious smell.
As these boards are some £350 from Bosch to replace it seems an expensive waste. Have also found a second hand part on the net from a company at a good low price but before buying this just thought I would ask if anyone has experienced this problem or have any other ideas of a cause?
JohnThanks for your suggestion on this problem. Sleeping on this problem and the lack of any burnt components on the board plus only a few months ago having had to replace the motor brushes I decided this morning to remove the motor just to double check the commutator and windings etc.. On doing so lo and behold the commutator, brushes and motor housing at that end were in a dreadful blackened state. Looking upwards at the outer drum where the motor is next to it is covered in blackened soot but does not appear damaged.
At this stage I suspect the brushes are not up to the job as I have not ever seen such a mess on a commutator but they were sold as the correct replacement. Whether the motor is now kaput as a result I do not as yet know but will update my post when all is clear. Thanks again for taking the time to reply.
JohnWell it`s the obvious the motor is nuked and that is why. When you changed the brushes what part number did you have, and where did you get them from. Should have been 00627470 and they are listed over £70 a pair (unless you bought an alternative or pattern part which are usually ok) via Bosch UK and the plastic holders are usually black so looks like your`re fitted with a Ceset made motor ( which your motor you show i`m 99{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} it is). When you fitted them there wasn`t by any chance a loudish ticking noise when the drum went round because there are left and right angled brush faces with some of these type of brushes they are not all the same – – fit the wrong ones and any noises ignored this would be the outcome as the motor sparks itself into oblivion OR if not, the motor was on its last legs when the old brushes failed. Certainly nuked now! You did propely snap off the new brushes plastic locking brush tangs didn`t you?
Very much doubt you`ll be able to salvage the thing unless you get a s/hand motor off ebay since a new motor is just over 360 quid (a total rip off) and still even then one of the pcb`s might be zapped too so a real expensive caught by the short ones experience. If you can get a s/hand motor for 30 quid might be worth a gamble BUT it`ll have to be for your specific model not just any old Bosch motor – motor part number to aid you is 00145432 for your model – go to bosch uk spares and type in the model number to double check for yourself..Thank you for the comments and suggestions they are much appreciated.
You are right that the motor is a CES one (photos are included). The brushes were a propriety make but cant find the paperwork anywhere. The brushes on this motor are the type fixed in the brass sleeve and cant be removed and so cant be installed wrong way round. HOWEVER now re-looking at these I have no idea where my head was at when I accepted these as suitable replacements!
As you will see from the accompanying photos when compared to the originals (which I still have and show in the photos) the brass sleeve sits far higher inside the plastic holder and is shorter than the originals brass sleeve so exposing more of the plastic holder to the heat and any sparking. It also offers far less support to the brush end nearest the commutator! The bad news doesn’t end there as I now find the “new” brushes are only 12mm wide and the originals 13.5mm. I am sure much of this is probably why the commutator and surrounding area are coated in sooty melted plastic.
What I did yesterday was to roughly clean the commie and brushes, holders etc. and run the motor on the floor at the base of the washing machine (loom was just long enough to reach). I was surprised to find the motor ran fairly well with almost no sparking on the commie. When it ran up to high speed there was some sparking but no “magic” smoke. I then installed the motor and ran two full 2hour washing sessions with a full load in each run.
Both runs completed successfully but with a fair amount of sparking when the washer was at full speed spinning – but again no smoke. The tub would not reach 1400rpm ( measured with a rev counter) but I think this could be due to the narrower brushes and the generally poor state of cleanliness of the commie.
So today I cleaned and resurfaced the commie properly (see photo) and took and edited the photos I have attached.
Hopefully if I can get some correct brushes and replacement plastic brush holders there may still be a chance of salvation yet! I would welcome your views or thoughts on this update.John
Images haven’t uploaded, safe to say it is amazing it actually ran again and hasn’t blown any electronics (yet) .:eek:
iadom wrote:Images haven’t uploaded, safe to say it is amazing it actually ran again and hasn’t blown any electronics (yet) .:eek:
agree from the look of the first pics I would have said its toast
Dave
I am looking at the uploaded images on the forum now so can only assume you are not seeing them if using a mobile to view. I would value your take on the photos as that is why I spent a lot of time taking and editing them. Will try attaching again.
As a supplementary question I am finding getting a replacement motor second hand for this particular washer almost impossible especially as responders on here tell me it must be fully identical (even though many look physically identical). Can I ask why being totally identical is the case as if it is the same main spec from the label plate and there seems to be no additional PCBs in the motor itself with only a rpm sensor (rev counter) on the motor shaft I must be missing something?
kind regards
JohnImages are now visible, earlier all I could see were five small V Bulletin icons on my iPad. Even turned down I don’t think that comm will last very long.:(
The 12mm carbons do look to be rather poor quality.
Any thoughts on what I said about differences between motors – as I am struggling to find the exact part number?
00145432 is the part number for your motor according to an earlier post. One thing to watch out for and something difficult to check with online pictures is the exact diameter of the motor drive pulley. Even the smallest difference in the pulley size will make a big difference as to wether it will work correctly.
One other thing you could if possible. Take short video of a close up of the comm as you very slowly revolve it through a full 360 degrees.Thanks again for the comments. I had thought about pulley size as obviously the drum pulley to motor pulley size differences would magnify or deplete any drum rpm by a small change in motor pulley size and of course pulleys can be changed though not easily. Beyond that I fail to see why other motors of equivalent spec and the same attachment points couldn’t be adapted to work if I cant get a second hand motor that is identical part number and certainly nopt one at Bosch’s extortionate prices!!.
I assume your request to run a 360 degree video of the commie was to see if there were any obvious individual segment differences? I will do that if I can but I can assure you every segment now is as the appearance on the photo displays. I have even rotated the motor with a DTI on the commie and it shows less than 2 thou difference on the complete rotation with no raised, lowered, loose or shorted segments showing. I am going to run some further tests tomorrow and will report back on them.
Johnpulley size is critical to balance the machine before spin. since the speed of the drum is measured at the motor shaft if the pulley is larger the drum speed will increase. This could make the wash speed increase which could affect the ability to wash properly. the opposite is a smaller pulley which would stop the drum balancing the load before spinning
this might fitDave
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.