Brandt Review

[kwatt]

Well it’s getting near that time again when rates get looked at for review and it has to be said that one in particular is getting on my nerves this week…

Brandt!

There’s no technical information available for most of the appliances, training is non-existant and the rates paid, given the nature of the De Deitrich brand in particular, are extremely low by today’s standards. Given that almost every one is at least a double and often a triple call it’s work that, frankly, isn’t worth having these days.

The chargeable work is next to xero now and when it does come in I often find that spares are NLA as Brandt have dropped them. Mind you they have parts NLA under warranty on one under double oven so what’s the chances really. 😕

To continue the work and make it anywhere worth doing without a massive change in tech info and backup I’d have to be looking at £50 a call minimum I reckon to cover the fact that most are a double visit. It’s still not going to be a money spinner by any means as it’s low-volume and time intensive even at that sort of rate, but at least I’d feel better about doing the work.

In addition to that I have a load of parts here to go back (at Brandt’s cost, not mine) for many a call where we’ve ordered spares and the appliance has been exchanged or BER’d before the spares arrived. That is really, really annoying. 👿

No harm to D&G, they’re as good as gold and I’ve no truck with them at all as they merely handle the admin of the calls, it’s Brandt that’s the problem here.

K.

[Alex]

Re: Rate Reviews

This deserves a high profile I think, and perhaps I should have opened a new topic on Brandt themselves. If one appears in the near future, I will copy & paste this across. Unless the gand controller would like to re-title this.

Anyway, here goes.

Way back in Feb 2003 I had enough of Brandt. They owed me nearly 2k on returns and the whole accounting system was a shambles. Therefore I decided to terminate them and penned a letter accordingly. As per the contract I was about to tender 3 months notice. Before I got round to posting it I received notice from D&G that they were taking over the Brandt service.

The next day, we received a termination notice from Manoj Aggorwhal of Brandt, “Date as postmark” and “Dear Agent” How impersonal can you get? The notice in effect was giving us as company 1 working days notice. I was not best pleased, as my only bargaining tool up to that point was my threat of suspension of service in order for them to reconcile and agree any money I was due. To compound the issue, I was still stuck as being an agent as I was a D&G repairer, and of course that meant the work coming in through the “back door”. I was on the phone at once advising D&G I could not undertake any work for Brandt due to the accounting problems and the underhand way we as agents were being treated by the service director of Brandt. D&G responded with sympathy but told me the fact that they have promised, and are indeed obligated to provide a service cover as part of the agreement they had just set up with Brandt.

I wrote to Manoj, I told him more or less what I thought of Brandt and promised them I would be doing this contract under duress, and I would not even attempt to endorse their products. Of course I had no reply.

We have suffered this for another 18 Months, and besides the excellent help offered by D&G there is never anything forthcoming from Brandt. Technical support is totally non-existent. There is a very haphazard regime regards returns, even if they accept these, there is no set procedure regards how to return parts; which happens because the product has been exchanged due to their delays. We have now found that Brandt are undertaking some of the work themselves. We have been waiting an age for help from Tech. regards parts for a W/Machine and after they finally responded we ordered bits. When the parts arrived after a 5 week delay we phoned the customer who advised us a Brandt engineer called 2 weeks previously and had renewed parts and indeed the machine was fully repaired. This customer made it clear that we seemed to have been at fault and within days of them phoning Brandt the turn around was less than a week. The customer queried why were we so slow, and why did we not get Brandt to initiate speedier action. It worked for them, so it should have been the same for us the so-called appointed agents.

To say I was angry at Brandt’s actions is an understatement. Brandt fail to realise that they were out of order as they didn’t even bother to telephone enquiring the status of the call, let alone advising us they were about to take ownership of this job. On top of all that we were stuck with the bits. To date they haven’t had the courtesy to even respond to this issue. Due to this I have given D&G 30 days notice regards Brandt, which has put them in a difficult position. Brandt are demanding D&G find a replacement agent, I told Therese at D&G if it was me I would be mercenary in reminding them they have not only broken their contract, but are undermining the D&G network. Brandt have told D&G that it is up to them to find a new agent, my response was, “They’ve already got a repairer, themselves. If they feel fit to treat their agents in this manner and are able to make service calls themselves, so be it!”

Gong back to what this thread is all about, to add insult to injury, in all this time we have not had a rate increase on this account. Not only are Brandt getting away with the removal of their own infrastructure, they are now getting service on the cheap. We finish with them December 17th and not a day too soon.

Alex

[kwatt]

Re: Brandt Review

Funnily enough Alex I could tell a similar tale, despite having been an agent for Brandt since before the collapse of Tableside!

Oh and I changed the topic for you. 😉

I had a list that was sent to Brandt nearly two years ago of spares I wanted returning for credit, needless to say they never picked them up and I’m damned sure I ‘m not payingto return them. If they want them, they can come get them. The line I take is that these were ordered in good faith to service their product at their behest and I can see no valid reason that I should pay to return spares that I make no profit on, in fact I don’t even make anything doing the work for them in reality, so why should I pick up the tab?

Of course due to a hard drive failure I’ve lost that information and Brandt have no knowledge of it so I have to start again. 🙁

They also owe me money for claims that were rejected as being over 30 days old, what a load of tosh! Under law an invoice is valid for up to 6 years from the date of the work being carried out, I did inform Brandt of this and recieved no reply, just like you.

I also got the same letter of termination and I wasn’t exactly over the moon about it either, not exactly a nice way to treat your agents.

However, I have not paid my spares account with Brandt and that seems to have gotten some attention, now all I need to do is get it through that I will not, under any circumstances, pay to have the spares shipped back. That’s Brandt’s problem, not mine.

Oh and I want the invoices that I have paid too, we did the work in all good faith, the least they could do is pay for it.

K.

[kwatt]

Re: Brandt Review

Well I am really pleased to report that Brandt called me today to tell me that they were sending up a load of tech info and training stuff. Result.

They are also trying to sort out the account with me as well, another result.

It’s so nice to be reporting good news for a change. 😀

K.

[admin]

Re: Brandt Review

I didn’t get a phone call from Brandt to say they have exchanged an appliance we finally received all the parts for. Again.

Sorry D&G but this crap has got to go.

So, do I give Brandt 1 days notice(sound familiar) or do I play it straight and chat to D&G and ask nicely that they ditch Brandt. They will have to stick with Brandt and ditch me no doubt.

So its people power time, the best way to bring a problem to the table is to ask their customers for help.

So from Monday 13th December I’m offering Brandt customers through D&G contract, next year (January 2005), whilst not refusing to do the work, I’m fed up with the crap and enough is enough.

kevin

[Alex]

Re: Brandt Review

I’m sorry this is chapter & verse, I wrote something similar the other day & it was lost in the crash.

FRIDAY 17th DECEMBER WE FINISH WITH BRANDT, I CANNOT WAIT

I had a case where we ordered parts on a Brandt I/G call. Not all the parts were listed on Agora. They took 5 weeks dithering about and finally condescended to replying to my requests. (They don’t seem to possess a technical department). When the bits arrived we phoned to book and it transpired the customer had it repaired 2 weeks ago. We questioned who called & they told us an engineer direct from Brandt. This was 2 weeks before their parts had even arrived to us. The customer made it plain that if it weren’t for her intervention, she would have still been waiting. She had pleasure in informing us that were inept; after all, 1 phone call from her got things in motion, yet we as agents were obviously impotent. Brandt to this day have never even asked us the status of this call.

Back in the early Summer we had a D/Washer that would not stop leaking from the door. The call was out of area, but because we were daft and no bu@@er else would call, we got it. We ordered hinges and the springs etc. but were unable to determine why this was happening as all looked good. We called back to find no avail, so phoned the so-called tech dept. we were told to order the goal post seal which we did, despite it looking 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d}. Engineer returns to fit seal & door won’t close, looks in the package with the seal & there is a bulletin advising we renew the door lock in conjunction with the seal. Nobody mentioned this before; so another order was placed. Called back to fit door mechanism, D/W leaked when got hot, phoned tech. again, nothing heard.

Couple weeks later, the customer drove to Basingstoke & sat outside waiting for them to open, after he phoned the BBC, Brandt took an interest. Brandt sent their own guy 2 days later and he found there was a splash seal part way up inside the door. He replaced that seal which he happened to have had. The customer told me it leaked again a couple of days later and in the end he had a replacement product. In all that time, and since in fact, we never had any follow up call or anything from Brandt & we were stuck with the bits as well a 5 calls out of area.

I tendered my notice to D&G regards me supporting or working for such a rubbish outfit, I advised D&G that I would give the same notice Brandt gave me, i.e. 1 working day. It appears that Brandt have got D&G by the short & curlies, and took pleasure no doubt in telling them that they are deemed to find a replacement agent. I told Therese at D&G there is no problem as Brandt seems to be capable of doing their own work, and they are undermining the whole D&G network. Well, my better nature kicked in, & I’m seeing the back of Brandt as from 17th December.

One small point though, if this comes in through the back door, don’t include me as an agent. They are the most nefarious company I’ve ever dealt with and there is no way on earth my company will attend their products as long as their present service director remains in charge.

Please note:- no engineers or office staff were abused or hurt in the making of this statement.

[admin]

Re: Brandt Review

hi Alex,

For us, its calls like this,

Got a job where brandt have supplied spares direct to customer…steam oven 2 x hinges to replace. No probs I hear you all sceam.

Wrong.

Brandt have supplied two left hand hinges (the broken one …you guessed it is a right hand) No probs …close job for payment of our call and send customer back to brandt.

Gets another call to fit hinge…..D&G won’t issue another authorisation, we have to do it as recall.

We go and sort out customer, who now has 5 left hand hinges and 2 right hand hinges in a bag (brandt overkill), so fitted and working with a spare set for her if they break again.
So 2 visits £37.14 as payment and Brandt to blame and D&G no help. I’m not sure who does what at Brandt but from my perspective they are poor at everything and crap at the rest.

Sod em

Kevin

PS…And if D&G want to place their work elsewhere, so be it.

PPS..we got one of those dishwashers as well

[kwatt]

Re: Brandt Review

I think we should talk to DAG collectively, IMO that would yield a far more positive result and let’s be honest, none of us have any reason (or many at least) to fall out with DAG.

What I have seen is it’s not just me that has an issue here with Brandt and, unsurprisingly, it seems to be that we all have the same or similar problems which tells a story in itself.

But for the benefit of DAG and Brandt I’ll explain my position on the work requested.

Brandt stuffed us all, we all know it and that was a bitter pill to swallow especially in light of the fact that I have been an agent for Brandt since long before any of the current staff were there. In fact I was doing the appliances before they even had a UK outfit, it was through Tableside and that loyalty gets repaid with a “Date As Postmark” letter of termination, happy I was not.

So I faxed and I faxed Brandt about outstanding payments and whatnot to get it resolved and, at the time, I thought, “ah well no great loss as the work was a pain in the ass anyway”. Then it comes back to haunt me.

Even before the termination I was considering the position with Brandt as the work was non-profitable and a pain to administer, coupled with the lack of support and the spares issues it really was going nowhere. Now it’s even worse as any of the staff that I knew had a clue and knew the product are long gone, they didn’t like the new regime at Brandt.

Now I’m in a bind, I don’t want to fall out with DAG but I simply refuse to lose money on this contract. Given the high level of multiple calls and other hassles the rate for this would need to be approaching the £70 IMHO to make it worthwhile looking at.

On the specifics, I’ve had several of those dishwashers and the one I mentioned the other day, well the customer is about to get her third one and it wouldn’t surprise me if it leaks as well. Ovens that have mad electronic control systems, steam ovens that steam clean the kitchen whilst cooking the food, induction hobs that the only cure seems to be ordering PCB after PCB and of course the spares pricing which for control knobs we need oxygen standing by for when we inform the customer of the price. Then on top, to cap it off, sod all information until we scream blue murder.

What really irked me the other day was the fact that I learned of the mod-kit for the dishwasher from another manufacturer that has nothing to do with DAG and, bar buying the appliances at factory, nothing to do with Brandt either, certainly nothing to do with the UK office. Now if they have that information why do we not as agents? Is it just sloppy or is it that we just don’t matter? Personally, from the treatment I’ve had from Brandt I suspect the latter.

But this goes on down the line, we’re sending engineers into look at products that they are unfamiliar with and it shows. It shows to me and the customers aren’t that stupid, they know when the engineer hasn’t got a clue and the engineers resent Brandt for it as well, who can blame them. So I, as their employer, get grief from them and little stories on their sheets like “don’t send me back as I’ve no idea what the **** this is all about” or “order everything, I’ve not got a clue”. That gets fed back and I resent sending the guys as I know I’m losing money, getting no support and going to get grief from the customer as well as the engineer. Hardly conducive to a happy working environment is it?

I would rather it was sorted out but I may be left with no option, just like Alex as I don’t want to be losing engineers as they’re harder to find than work to replace Brandt or DAG.

K.

[Alex]

Re: Brandt Review

Well to be honest every time I speak to the team at D&G I steer the converstion around to slag off Brandt.

I’ve even said I will talk personalities on this as I have no time for them in particular the Brandt service director. Yes I mean Manoj Aggarwhal. He thinks he can treat us as though we are something he has trod in. I suspect everytime my name is mentioned he probably says, “Oh him again”. If I’m a thorn in his side, then I hope it eventually pricks his conscience.

Therese at D&G knows I’m finishing the Brandt work 17th Dec. and I promised her a review before that date. I must phone her as a reminder no way will I reconsider, and I’m glad to see the back of Manoj & his bloody outfit.

It may be an idea to get together as a team & put D&G into the picture, but really the best way would be individually, but all on the same day.

Maybe someone would like to point D&G to these postings and then maybe they can see what the issues & sentiments really are.

Alex

[kwatt]

DAG do have access to this forum Alex and I know that they, like Connect, do listen to us but I fear that perhaps we’ve not been vocal enough up until this point. However I will email Therese or Mike F if no-one else beats me to it pointing this thread out as we’ve nothing to hide here, it’s just a bit of honesty for a change and that way we’re working with DAG to explain the situation with Brandt.

It is crap work though and has been for a long time, no wonder almost no-one else will touch it out of warranty.

K.

[Alex]

Re: Brandt Review

By all means put my name in the frame on this. May be an idea if we speak on the phone 1st.

D&G are fully aware of my sentiments, but you have my authority and I’m o.k. with being pulled into the discussions. This after all is to be to the good of the industry & the likes of Manoj should not be allowed to be given carte-blanche to walk all over us.

I’m getting passionate now, but in over 30 years I’ve never dealt with such an orgnisation as Brandt; and it is about time we reminded them we are professionals and not their lackies.

Alex

[kwatt]

Okay, we’ll let DAG know tomorrow about the current situation. There’s simply too many people voicing discontent on Brandt and I thought it was just me.

The last thing I want to do is threaten anyone really but when it comes down to the money there’s a clear choice, loyalty or not.

If anyone else has had issues with Brandt please let us know, if you want it to stay quite then simply PM or email either Alex, myself, Dave or Kevin. Or there’s always that old telephone thing we all have. 😉

K.

[Alex]

Re: Brandt Review

And remember one thing:-

Brandt chose to remove all their loyal agents and carried out the deed in a very underhand manner. There was little consideration of the fact that a lot of these agents came back on stream via D&G, in other words they never carried out any research into how to run their business.

To add insult to injury, in all this time we have not seen a rate increase, coupled with the fact that due to the lack of support from Brandt, there is a risk of dropping on the D&G survey. All other work I do for D&G I can manage & keep under control. As long as Brandt keep pulling stunts like undermining us the agents, then the whole operation is worthless as there is little credence in being loyal to them.

In essence, Brandt are getting the services of a dedicated team through the likes of D&G at a cheap price and do not need to have, or feel they need the infrastructure to support this. It is soley down to the quality of the D&G set-up they (Brandt) have enjoyed the level of service they have had. Regretfully all actions we seem to be forced to undertake reflects on D&G and not the perpetrator of the crime being Brandt.

Roll on december 17th.

Alex

[admin]

Re: Brandt Review

hi,

If your talking to D&G you have my permission to add me to the distgruntled list too. But this is no idle threat…

kevin

[patches]

Re: Brandt Review

We had a phone call today from Brandt to find our what was happening with a customer we called to on the 4th November.
Our answer – we have placed parts on order with you through Agora on 5th November.
What are the parts is their reply?
Our retort “YOU SHOULD KNOW WE HAVE ORDERED THEM VIA YOUR OWN SYSTEM”.
Unfortunately they are unable to track orders they have received they advise us.
To make matters even more farcical they put the blame on the agents for parts delays caused by themselves.
What an antiquated and chaotic operation they have & the sooner D&G dump them the better for all. K

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