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Re: Crazy Idea
kwatt wrote:“Why don’t we just start from scratch, build our own association that actually does something”, or words to that effect.
So, having told us about the reasons Sean and yourself brought the subject up outside the pub that night. Have you now talked yourself out of the idea? Or is there any possible need or justification for creating a brand new, UKW based trade association or federation?
Re: Crazy Idea
The jury’s out quite frankly Martin.
The point of the thread was to find out whether or not there was any call for one and, in all honesty, I really don’t know whether there is or isn’t. All I do know is that what we’ve got as an “official association” is pretty much a waste of space IMO.
K.
Re: Crazy Idea
Well for Trustmark to get off the ground, that has to be part of an Association as you know in order for government backing etc.
There also are strong grounds for UKW to collectively form a ‘co-operative’ or to put it another way a ‘central trading group’. A kind of central buying group if you like, but more far reaching than that to incorporate a centralised access to tech information that has the approval of the major manufacturers (a bit like Tradeplace I suppose?).
All this copywrite crap and stuff like that can be overcome in many ways by enabling individual companies and sole traders the right of access (at a much much cheaper rate I must add) to bonafide members registered and committed to the strict terms of the ‘UKW co-op’..
Dunno? :con:Re: Crazy Idea
Actually, no.
There is no stipulation from Trustmark that the scheme has to be operated by any one kind of body. It can be run on a commercial basis if the company meets the core criteria. Trustmark were only too happy to talk to UKW about running the scheme within the industry, probably as they know that we’ve more reach within the appliance repair industry than any other one entity.
I would agree strongly with the sentiment of centralising the technical information, whether it is financially viable or not is another matter. We know that the core would be prepared to pay for it, what is unknown is if anyone else would.
Our vetting procedure could simply be expanded on to verify trade membership. The easiest and fastest way to reach repairers is to use inclusion in the repairs@ system as the standard. That way we get a lot of information and would ensure that only repairers had access.
K.
Re: Crazy Idea
What agenda? There isn’t one, officially. 😉
Perhaps for discussion, yes, but not one that too many ears are listening into. 😉
K.
Re: Crazy Idea
See, here’s the thing… 😉
It doesn’t matter when you care to debate DASA at all or pretty much what company is around, if there’s DASA members they usually get all huffy at the first whiff of criticism about it.
All you’d get is the old tirades rolled out. Like, “why have another association when you don’t support the one that you have?”.
Well gee Sherlock, I wonder. Did you ever stop to think it’s a pile of w**k and nobody can be bothered to support your little club? did it ever occur to you that perhaps you lost the plot a ways back and can’t seem to relocate it?
I could go on, but what’s the point?
You try to help the poor sods and all you get is accused of being some kind of traitor. If people could be shot for DASA Treason I’d have been a goner long ago and I wouldn’t be the only one seeing the blindfold being pulled over their eyes either, many of them DASA or former DASA members.
But like most oppressive states the difference between the party propaganda and the actual truth is quite a gulf to cross.
The stark reality that DASA has to face is that the name is, IMO, so sullied now that there is no way back from the brink. In fact there’s not enough people that care to even worry about it as, last I heard tell, there were less than forty paid up members. Hardly representative of the repair industry I would hazard.
It had it’s day, it didn’t move with the times, it’s dead. Let’s move on please.
It’s fine to talk about it in here as, so far as I know Mark’s the last one of us that is actually still a part of DASA although, knowing Mark, he’s considering what he’s read in this thread. What anyone decides on this subject is their own choice to make, I would not try to sway anyone one way or t’other as it is a primarily emotive decision as there’s little gain from DASA membership, bar an invoice every year as someone recently pointed out to me.
Other than that I can see no benefit.
Which I guess leads me onto a conversation I had with John. 18 months ago.
What John said to me, looking at UKW from a marketing standpoint, has stayed with me and, I probably will paraphrase here but the sentiment goes thus…
“UK Whitegoods is very simple in essence. If it supports the independent repairers etc. then you’re all for it. If it doesn’t, you are against it and fight it.”
To me, that’s what DASA should have been doing and, they failed in that, completely. If the fundamental principles are not upheld then please explain to me just how DASA represents the independent repairer?
Answers on a postcard please.
Which brings us to the idea of an “association”. Define it. What is an “association”?
The top 8 results on dictionary.com state:
dictionary.com wrote:1. an organization of people with a common purpose and having a formal structure.
2. the act of associating or state of being associated.
3. friendship; companionship: Their close association did not last long.
4. connection or combination.
5. the connection or relation of ideas, feelings, sensations, etc.; correlation of elements of perception, reasoning, or the like.
6. an idea, image, feeling, etc., suggested by or connected with something other than itself; an accompanying thought, emotion, or the like; an overtone or connotation: My associations with that painting are of springlike days.
7. Ecology. a group of plants of one or more species living together under uniform environmental conditions and having a uniform and distinctive aspect.
8. Chemistry. a weak form of chemical bonding involving aggregation of molecules of the same compound.1 through 6 can pretty easily be applied to UK Whitegoods.
The term “association” is not an exclusive one. It can be applied to many an organisation or community, physical, imaginary or virtual in any event. The fact is that, in context with “DASA” or the word “trade” is is assumed to hold a certain meaning. However I would argue that that meaning, or more pertinently, that honour, cannot be bestowed upon an organisation that has behaved in this manner. Frankly, it’s not worth the title or that level of reverence.
The only questions that remain, for me, is where do we go from here.
Do we…
Let it just die?
Do something to save it?
Do something else?
K.
Re: Crazy Idea
kwatt wrote:Do something else?
Probably this is the road to take?
If UKW developed into an all encompassing work tool it would attract a greater trade following. In order to become that I believe it needs to overcome the various ‘tech info’ issues and to incorporate that information through its repairs@ members only module.
We all know the massive attention the ‘Known Error Codes’ thread has had over the years. Indies are straining at their leashes for such info and if it is contained within one site like this, then you’re on to a winner.
UKW in its present form is turning into a retail money making tool like all Internet sites and paying little attention to the indie trade (I know the latter statement will prompt a rebuff but its the truth)
65 indies so far voted in that poll, not much of a response, hardly supports my beliefs in ‘indie power’ but that’s 65 more votes than DASA would get. Furthermore if there was an ounce of belief in whether UKW had the power to change anything in the indies favour, they would come out of the woodwork in their droves. 65 would quickly become 650 and on and on.
Together we can attempt a turn-around. We need contact names and addresses of those that could help us out here. A few hours at a word processor and a few postage stamps to start the ball rolling.
Or……
we can doing nothing……. 🙁
Re: Crazy Idea
Perhaps on the tech info, let’s see where that goes over the next week or so. We’ll know more after we get a response from the OFT.
On the retail thing, you see a few adverts and you take the hump about it? What evidence is there to support this wild claim about UKW turning into a “retail money making tool”? At what point have the indies been ignored? I can see absolutely no evidence to support those ridiculous accusations. You also have absolutely no clue as to the work that goes on directing contracts and whatnot behind the scenes Martin so please, before you make wild assertions at least do me the courtesy of getting the facts straight.
Aside from which how in the hell do you think that we keep an operation that costs in excess of £100K a year just to run going? I don’t have a magic wand, a generous benefactor or take money from the people that can least afford to pay, the indies. We have to fund UKW somehow and, to be perfectly blunt, how we do that is down to me and the other directors. At least, unlike some, I will stand by my promise never to take money from the repairers.
I am, to be honest, offended by that remark.
As to the numbers you’re looking at it with a “glass half empty” view. The way you would spin that is to say that in a recent poll of several hundred trade members 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} support was shown for an open door policy on technical information. It’s all spin.
As to contacting the trade at large, again, you don’t know the half of what I do on a daily basis for this industry and I hope to, this week or next, secure a deal to allow us to do a mass mailout again to the entire industry, including independent retailers as well.
And before you, or anyone else, starts about not knowing about stuff, I simply can’t tell you all that I do in a normal 12 hour (or more) day as I don’t have the time to sit and write it all down or even tell everyone, in fact very often even Dave and Sean only find out some things when they become pressing enough for them to know.
K.
Re: Crazy Idea
kwatt wrote:I am, to be honest, offended by that remark.
Well I’m sorry to hear that you are offended by my somewhat tongue in cheek remark so do please accept my apology. 😉
You did ask for comments, I gave you mine and as ever I am more than willing to assist you whenever you ask by whatever means are available to me. 😀
Martin
Re: Crazy Idea
Martin wrote:UKW in its present form is turning into a retail money making tool like all Internet sites and paying little attention to the indie trade (I know the latter statement will prompt a rebuff but its the truth)
Does not in any way, shape or form even remotely come across as being tongue in cheek, it is made as a simple statement of fact, reinforced by the bracketed comment.
Offended by it, you bet you’re a$$ I am.
You have absolutely no concept of the work and effort that goes into acting on behalf of the indies by myself, Sean, Dave, John, David and others and, to insult us in this way with a cheap remark is, to me, disgusting. You basically throw away all the effort that’s been made to help the guys out there. YOU may not have had any benefit bar a few repairs@ calls, but others have benefited much more than you from the efforts.
And, to be honest Martin, if that’s all you think that UKW is about than you are seriously, seriously mistaken?
K.
Re: Crazy Idea
kwatt wrote:And, to be honest Martin, if that’s all you think that UKW is about than you are seriously, seriously mistaken?
Can we talk about this over a drink at Sibson? …..My round I believe 🙂
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