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I’ve read/heard about using a cup of vinegar and running the dishwasher (or washing machine) on a high temperature cycle as a maintenance wash.
On a washing machine, it’s easy, just pour a cupful of white vinegar into the detergent drawer. No problem. But where do you put the vinegar in a dishwasher?
I put a cup the top rack, but predictably, all I got at the end was a cup of hot vinegar. So, that’s not the way to do it.
What do I do? Just chuck a cupful into the bottom of the machine. Won’t that just drain away and not clean the machine? It’s a Bosch SGS57E02. They recommend using a cupful of white spirit vinegar on How Clean Is Your House, but don’t say how. Perhaps it’s so obvious, I’m missing the point entirely. 😯
I can’t see how vinegar is going to clean the dishwasher at all.
You can get dishwasher cleaner from Finish in most supermarkets and it does work although I can’t tell you how or what it actually does.
K.
Re: dishwasher maintenance using vinegar
nerdette wrote:They recommend using a cupful of white spirit vinegar on How Clean Is Your House, but don’t say how. Perhaps it’s so obvious, I’m missing the point entirely. 😯
The purpose behind the use of vinegar is a simple and cheap method for removing hard water limescale build-up (calcium and magnesium deposits) from surfaces such as baths, WC’s Taps etc etc.
This method is however not recommended for washing machines. Instead using the correct quantities of detergent in each wash followed by a simple wipe of the door glass and door seal and leaving the door ajar after use will avert any problems.
Dishwashers do not suffer from hard water problems due to the fact they have water softener systems built-in. And the frequent topping-up of the salt container will ensure plenty of soft water washes!
Dishwasher cleaning agents contain a soda solution, Borax and perfume fresheners. They do work to help restore the shine to the stainless steel tubs that may have been neglected through heavy use and abuse.
Re: dishwasher maintenance using vinegar
Vinegar has very good cleaning properties, and disinfects too, although not to the same extent as proprietary disinfectants. In fact, some people use vinegar instead of rinse aid, and it can also be used as a fabric conditioner in the washing machine.
It doesn’t just tackle limescale, but also grease, and it’s a very good household cleaner. In fact, there are is no good reason to shell out for branded cleaners when the old fashioned ways are just as effective, and are often better.
Not only vinegar, but also soda crystals, bicarbonate of soda, lemon juice, and washing up liquid, depending on the job. You can use a vinegar/hot water mixture to wash your windows for example, a cheap and non-toxic alterntive to Windolene or Mr Muscle and very effective.
But back to dishwashers. I use 3 in 1 tablets, I keep the salt topped up, and the dishwasher is pretty much clean all the time. But it pays to look after your machine, keep it in good working order. I have used the Finish cleaner, and it works well, but a bit expensive.
I did some searching on the internet, and I did eventually find how to use vinegar. You put it into a bowl on the bottom rack, and run the dishwasher on the hot cycle. The spashing should distribute the vinegar.
I don’t mind the Finish cleaner once every few months, but not once a month as recommended. I’d rather use the vinegar method once a month, and every 3-4 months use the Finish stuff.
By the way, the washer help site suggests running the machine empty on a hot cycle with a cup of vinegar to get rid of the soapy, slimy stuff that can build up, and he even recommends soda crystals too. My washing machine manual suggests running the machine empty on a hot cycle as a maintenance wash.
Re: dishwasher maintenance using vinegar
Hi Nerdette,
Yes vinegar does have good cleaning properties but you fail to point out that it is highly acidic. I cannot actually tell you how that would affect the chemicals that are in your water softener to make the machine actually work. Should people and, many do, rely on the water softener I would be extremely apprehensive at following that advice given some of the things I’ve seen. Then, on top of that, you are relying on yet more chemical reactions to clean afterwards and any residuals may well affect that performance, so I’m afraid that without conclusive scientific proof I would not recommend that method of cleaning to any customer on a “heard it on the net” basis as we all know how unreliable that can be.
Vinegar was used extensively in Victorian times, from what I understand of it, as a cleaning agent, often used in conjunction with bicarbonate as a mildly abrasive cleaner. Use that on many modern fascias and I will gaurantee that the lettering on the said fascia will vanish very, very quickly. This includes any surface on an appliance that is stenciled on.
It is effective cleaning, yes, but not on a modern appliance.
Vinegar as conditioner? You’d smell like a fish & chip shop surely, and I doubt it’d work as conditioner is essentially a grease based fluid, most unlike vinegar.
Putting washing up liquid in a washer or dishwasher is a huge no-no, DON’T do it! You could risk severe damage to the appliance, a service call at best to put it right in most cases.
Using 3-in-1 with salt is overdosing the salt and that can lead to issues.
As for vinegar instead of rinse aid, that’s a new one on me. Rinse aid breaks down the surface tension of the water allowing the water to run off without streaking, I doubt very much that vinegar has this property and, again, I would not advise that people try it.
I’d recommend using quality soap, rinse aid and salt to get the best results and you will struggle to find an engineer that will recommend the use of 3-in-1 etc. tablets.
Used properly, modern detergents should require no additives to be added to the wash.
K.
Re: dishwasher maintenance using vinegar
nerdette wrote:Vinegar has very good cleaning properties, and disinfects too, although not to the same extent as proprietary disinfectants. In fact, some people use vinegar instead of rinse aid, and it can also be used as a fabric conditioner in the washing machine.
The only part of that statement that is correct is the fact that vinegar has some cleaning abilities, the rest is totally incorrect I’m afraid 🙁
nerdette wrote:I did some searching on the internet, and I did eventually find how to use vinegar. You put it into a bowl on the bottom rack, and run the dishwasher on the hot cycle. The spashing should distribute the vinegar.
Don’t waste your smelly vinegar on this bright idea either, the application is plausable, the effect negligible ❗
nerdette wrote:By the way, the washer help site suggests running the machine empty on a hot cycle with a cup of vinegar to get rid of the soapy, slimy stuff that can build up
Hmmm!…I must have a word with Andy about that one! 😯
Re: dishwasher maintenance using vinegar
I have been recommending vinegar in DW for over 20 years and it does a brilliant job, it cleans out all the grease around the doors and pipework, in these hard water area’s it gives everthing a lovelly shine.
So if you haven’t used it don’t knock it unless you have proof it is detrimental to any of the components in the appliance, I will cntinue recommending it and a cup full of washing soda in the washing machines, it gets rid of the bad odours and congealed soap powders black goo on door rubbers from all these 40 degree washes.Kirk
Fine Kirk, not a problem I will get you a full chemical analysis if you like. But vinegar is essentially a weak acid and that’s about it as far as I am aware.
Water hardness is actually removed by surfactants in the detergent if it is used correctly, but that’s the big problem, most people do not use it correctly.
K.
Mail away to the boffins that know these things for a definitive answer, probably get an answer in the next couple of days.
Don’t be surprised if it’s a bit technical. 🙄
K.
Re: dishwasher maintenance using vinegar
You may well find that acetic acid isn’t as technically good as some of the products produced for doing the job but I personally prefer a little vinegar down my drains than all the produced chemicals.
Also Ken you are in a soft water area and don’t see these results you may know of it,remember I am also from Glasgow and have seen both.
Down south Dover you can’t get much harder water than this.I have also been on the detergent training and I know what they are pushing,
we are the ones out there seeing the results.Kirk
Re: dishwasher maintenance using vinegar
I did ask Kirk, I got a kinda miffed reply to start with. I actually had to email the whole thread over as the boffins didn’t believe it.
I have tested stuff in soft (obviously), city (London) and hard water. All the tests we published results on where done in “medium” hardness at 40oC, 19o Clarke. I can tell you there was no cheating as I did the tests and it was overseen by an international verification company!
I don’t like to be wrong and usually won’t argue a point unless I know I’m correct. 😉
I too have had previous experience of detergent training that, while useful, had an alterior motive more than imparting information. This is not a push to sell a product, it’s a push to inform and educate engineers and the public. The current training was designed in conjunction with myself and Kevin, not a marketing company and we required proof that the information was correct and accurate. However, that has nothing to do with this thread really, all it highlights is that I don’t take anyone’s word for it without proof, even a multi-million dollar blue chip company as they can lie too.
I haven’t even named any product here that I’d recommend, in fact I think I mentioned one that we don’t even talk to, but there’s no point as I’m not trying to sell anything here bar good advice. The results when the products are used correctly speak for themselves.
K.
Re: dishwasher maintenance using vinegar
As I suspected.
The wash process is carried out in an alkaline solution and, when vinegar is added which is acidic, it upsets the Ph balance of the wash cycle which may well lead to poor wash results.
What it will do is get rid of limescale deposits to an extent, as acid eats that.
What it won’t do is kill off any bacteria, you need a bleaching agent to do that which is alkaline, so by adding vinegar you effectively just negate the bleaching agent to an extent or entirely depending on the dosage added. So this will not solve bacteria build up of scum etc.
There’s your answer from the chemical boffins, the wash process relies heavily on the chemistry involved for both washers and dishwashers and the same seems to apply to both.
Also, like me, they seem to think that this could cause permanent and irreversible damage to the water softener unit and possibly weaken the rubber compounds used in certain seals and hoses.
Best not eh? 😉
K.
Re: dishwasher maintenance using vinegar
Actually, the idea for a cup of vinegar once a month to clean out your dishwasher and washing machine comes from How Clean Is Your House, on Channel 4. In fact, I think they say it in their book.
Yes, indeed, vinegar is acetic acid, I do know that. I did chemistry at school, blah blah. I understand perfectly.
But it is indeed a disinfectant, not to the same extent as bleach or branded disinfectants, but it does have some anti-bacterial properties.
I have removed some very stubborn stains from laundry using vinegar, and it is very, very effective.
As for using it as a fabric conditioner, I never use commercial fabric conditioners anyway, I cannot stand smelling of some chemical soup, and I don’t think they do very much anyway, except clog up the dispenser drawer.
Do your clothes smell like a fish and chip shop? No. As soon as you hang out the clothes, the smell evaporates, and there’s no trace of it.
I have to say, I’m with you, Kirk. It’s far better to avoid flushing harsh chemicals into the drainage system. That’s why I never buy all these branded household cleaning products. They don’t do the job any better than the old fashioned things I mentioned in my earlier post.
I mean, I mention one cup of vinegar to clean out your dishwasher once a month, and look at the aggro 😉
But as Kirk says, don’t knock it until you’ve tried it. The reasons I use it are for the very reasons Kirk states.
Using 3-in-1 with salt is overdosing the salt and that can lead to issues.
In my area, with very hard water, it’s recommended to use salt even with 3 in 1. Even Bosch say so.
And whoever suggested that I would actually put washing up liquid into a dishwasher is seriously underestimating me. I mean, come on …..
The thing I am interested in is getting RESULTS. Everything else, whether this or that person is right/wrong, I don’t care. It’s the results that count.
Clean laundry, clean dishes, and low maintenance.I prefer to keep my use of branded, harsh, proprietary cleaning products to a minimum. And like Kirk says, unless it actually harms any of the components, and it produces the desired results, then I think I’ll continue to do my maintenance washes using the vinegar.
Re: dishwasher maintenance using vinegar
I was fully aware of where the information came from, I saw some of the episodes and was a bit perplexed at some of it.
Vinegar will no doubt, due to being a carcanogenic substance, kill some bacteria but it will be nowhere as effective as other, more suitable, cleaners from a chemical standpoint. Therefore to my mind that is not a recommendation of the best product for the job, nor will achieve the best results.
If you’re happy with it I wouldn’t try to stop you, there’s no problem at all. What I have to consider is the perhaps hundreds of people that could go away from the site with innaccurate or totally wrong information and so these things are better explored.
I do not subscribe to the use of conditioner personally either, I think it’s just a waste, but people like it and they like the smell. Still can’t convince the other half that there’s no need for it, but I can’t win them all.
As for the smell evaporating, I can’t comment as I have not and will not try it.
Yeah, if you’re in a really hard water area then extra salt is required with tabs, makes you wonder why they bother. Just using pukka dishwasher salt at the correct dose with detergent and rinse aid is far better IMO.
Most cleaning products should be fine, if used under the conditions that they are intended for, many are preying on customer misconceptions, misinformation and laziness. So long as you understand what it is you’re actually buying and for what then you shouldn’t have a problem.
A classic example I noticed the other day is Vanish in wash tabs and powder, it contains >5{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} enzymes, if you add that to a non-bio powder then you just negated the point of a non-bio. not that enzymes are harmless, but it’s hardly well publicised that Vanish contains biological agents.
Caveat emptor. And if you’re happy with the results then fair enough.
K.
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