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Re: Does anyone check wall sockets?
Okay I’ve tried all day to be good and resist this, but I just can’t! 😈
You’ve hit the nail on the head as far as I’m concerned Martin, our remit is to repair the appliance and not to test or repair the customer’s house electrics. As far as I’m concerned if the customer wants a diagnosis of her house electrical system she/he should call an electrician and I tell customers that. We are not electrician’s and I will not get involved in that work in any way.
You’re dead right, the Martindale tells you all you need to know for your own safety and I believe in testing I just don’t think we should be forced into testing something that we are not really qualified to comment upon, electricians go to school for years to be able to that and then get paid a lot more than we do!
Interestingly I had a conversation recently about whapping 500V round an appliance and was told that in some cases with the newer electronics that’s coming that it may actually damage some sensitive components, so much for that plan if it turns out to be correct.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not against testing and safety, that’s not the point of what I’m saying, the point is why should I invest money in time, training and equipment that has little, or nothing, to do with the reason I’m there in the first place and then, to add insult to injury, I don’t get paid to do the testing. And yes, I am a mercenary sod! 😉
K.
Re: Does anyone check wall sockets?
kwatt wrote:You’re dead right, the Martindale tells you all you need to know for your own safety and I believe in testing I just don’t think we should be forced into testing something that we are not really qualified to comment upon, electricians go to school for years to be able to that and then get paid a lot more than we do!
I’ve always used a Martindale tester too but I’m not totally sure that they do actually tell you everything you need to know for your own safety. My understanding is that if the earth route in a socket is so poor that only one strand of copper is actually connected to earth, then the Martindale tester will still show the socket to be “earthed” but if a direct short to earth occurred, the one strand of copper earth could blow like a fuse and the earth route is severed.
As I’m not a qualified electrician, I couldn’t say whether in all circumstances the fuse would get a chance to blow in such circumstances or not but it’s been my understanding that this is why they aren’t any good for earth checking.
Re: Does anyone check wall sockets?
Forgetting the commercial side of the argument, it is quite right; electricians do go to school for years to learn their trade. Most of the “engineers” in our “Profession”, do not have any formal training, yet like to think of themselves as competent to do their job.
Manufacturers training consist of usually a” two week course” these personal become “experts”. Are these people better “engineers” than most, I do not think so, they just work for a manufacturer.
Formal training (the like of Apprentice electricians receive) prepares them for the work that will they will do in later life. This generic training provides them with Theory required, to give the ability to cope and understand the situations they will encounter in the course of their daily work. This theory in conjunction with the on job training is measured, and a qualification issued.In our situation How would any government body, separate the cowboys from the better cowboys. That is mostly, the choice, anyone looking from the outside would have, only because our trade is not a trade in the proper sense.
Only Formal qualification training would deliver the theory, required to supplement the experience in a measurable standard, “engineers” would be graded according to ability.
Going back to DASA. Being actively involved for a few years now, I have taken the opportunities that have come up from time to time. Yes it has cost me money and time to partake, but I enjoy furthering my formal education. If I was not a DASA member, I am sure these opportunities would not have come my way.
On the commercial side, I have to agree, it costs money to do anything, time is money, but how does the” trade” move forward when we argue that it costs 25p per job (figure plucked out of the air) to do this test, instead of “well this is the best way to do it attitude” 😳 😳 😳
S
I would not agrue with anything you’ve said Sumphose, in fact I applaud the fact that you can see what I’m on about here.
My primary concern is that for something like this to be justifiable in a commercial situation, just like any other investment in a business, you have to see a return for your money. In so far as I can see there is none here other than more heartache, grief and expense for the business. So my point is, why do it? Commercially it just doesn’t make sense to do so and we all run businesses, not charities.
I also agree that we have to find a way forward and if a better more competent breed of engineer is what’s needed then I’m all for it, I just don’t want to have to fund it with no return for the investment. I would think that working in harmony with the manufacturers, insurers and WP’s is the way forward there and that, if they want that level of competence, they will as a “trade” have to foot the bill in some way.
K.
Re: Does anyone check wall sockets?
Ironically, some years ago when I went back to collegue to retrain as a fridge engineer the R&AC trade was also having a crisis of identity. Up until about 1991 most of the tradesmen were either pipefitters, plumbers or electricians. However, a group of people got together and decided that they would put together a training package that would deliver fridge engineers into a new trade – this covered multi disciplines such as theory in electrical, pipework, mechanical, fridge and the environment. Further study included day release, block release, on the job training and academic studies. At the end of a three year full time course we all became qualified engineers. Now whilst I believe DASA did have some courses going, perhaps if some likeminded people were to get together with the tutors in institutions we could come up with something in modular
form that allows us to let our people off short term but over the long term generate some good engineers over time. A thought for you Ken – put my name down if you want help.Re: Does anyone check wall sockets?
Why invent the wheel when it’s already been tried first by DASA then by City & Giulds. Course is still available on day release over two years.
Problem is the apathy of this trade made the course uneconomic for the colleges to run, require a mimimum of twelve to make viable, so they dropped it.
DASA still has all the information and possibly the assessors / trainers all that is needed now is the will power to see it through.It’s not just apathy Tinhips although you are absolutely correct that it’s a huge problem in this industry. People in whitegoods service seem to want things done etc. but don’t want to get involved in them, case in point, DASA. But then for it to be a viable thing to take up it has to show some return for the investment, be that in time or a financial investment.
Training and bringing on a new generation engineers is absolutely vital to the future of this industry and its not happening anywhere. British Gas etc. are just “buying” engineers from established businesses and those businesses are not replacing staff the way they once would.
A conversation topic for another time and another thread though that is.
K.
Wow!! Dissapointed to read that everyone is not checking earth fault loop impedance before closing up the toolbox. Like all of you, I’ve come across high or open earths. This is a real danger. Personally, before I work on an earthed device, I check the earth fault loop. Then check it again when I’m done. There are some cheap testers out there now. So, go on protect yourselves, your employees, your business and the customer – you know it makes sense!!
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