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Re: Electrical Safety & Legal Legislation
Yes, this also brings in the question of Part P. Can you charge for tests on someones electrical installation if your firm is not a member of an approved body re. Part P?
When I used to work at the Electricity Board many years ago (about 30… eee.. them were the days) we always did an earth test on the appliance with a drumond tester (which for those of you who arn’t as long in the tooth as me and don’t know what they were, was a lamp in circuit with a resistance and insulated to 415 volts). These were standard issue and were the only piece of test equipment we were issued with and most testing was done with the appliance live!
Things have moved on since the bad old days but I still keep a similar tester in my tool box (old habits die hard) or use a voltmeter and always perform a Live to Earth test (sould indicate 240v – low voltage indicates a poor earth/ no voltage – no earth), Neutral to Earth (240v reading will show up wrong polarity) and Live to Neutral test both before and after I remove the plug from the socket.
This will tell me 1) there is earth continuity at the machine and the correct polarity(plug connected) 2) I have pulled the right plug out to disconect the machine before I delve my mits in and 3) there is no live into the machine if all you can do is switch the appliance off.
To me this is a simple and quick test on those appliances that have an accesible terminal block or mains connections and will show up any wiring faults that need an electrician to rectify and the customer can be made aware.
It also prevents those “ouch you b*&^{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d}$d” 😯 and the frizzed hair moments :eeek: when you realised that the obvious plug you pulled or the customer told you to pull wasn’t the right one or the switch was faulty or wired wrong!
Re: Electrical Safety & Legal Legislation
Nice one Mick,
There’s a way of doing things without taking too much time.
Only problems are:
1. More and more machines with inaccessible terminals like Zanussis.
2. Are you gonna bother pulling the machine out and removing the lid (especially in a filthy kitchen with limited space and all the carrier bags stuffed behind the washing machine and “I’ll just have a sweep round there while you’ve got it out” 🙄 ) when it’s a WM series interlock?
Mike.Re: Electrical Safety & Legal Legislation
This I think youll find is a legal requirement and that the results are documented.
Does anyone know if this is written anywhere ? The manufacturers own service departments & engineers have written instructions about safety tests but I have had a scout round the net and can find no specifc rules about what we are legally required to do. Obviosuly the people who made the rules for the above must base their requirements on some point of reference either legal , technical or more likely both.
I can rememeber joining my last company with 270 Service engineers, the first thing that was communicated to us all was that of the safety checks being done and for those who did not their job was at stake without any exceptions. Why after performing repairs we had technical supervisors who would on occassion without warning track you during the days work, they would go in and access the work that you had just done and if you had missed or not bothered to perform these checks that was real trouble, even the clever ones who thought that would just fill in the numbers came unstuck.
With trading standards and cowboy stings being common place these days its a wonder we are not all paranoid. But it each to their own in this subject as I see it, lets hope that if anyone comes unstuck although they may not be adept at using the tools for the diagnostics they will be able to argue the point with a hawk eyed quick thinking barrister.
Shiver me timbers !
Re: Electrical Safety & Legal Legislation
Phidom wrote:The tests on the appliance itself should be adequate to ensure the metal parts of the appliance do not become live.
The trouble is that even after a perfect insulation test there will more than likely be about 50{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of the mains supply voltage on the cabinet due to the action of the RF suppressor capacitors if the earth at the wall socket is not connected. 😯
Re: Electrical Safety & Legal Legislation
Find this very useful, quick and easy to use.
(PDL 200)
http://www.socketandsee.co.uk/Steve
Re: Electrical Safety & Legal Legislation
I always keep a record of the test results on the job card. But who should I look to for limits IEE HSE manufacturers they all seem to require different tests 500v 1000v 2Mohm 1Mohm high current earth bonding DC tests (not Clare)etc etc then theres earth loop impedance tests RCD tests.
Commom sence is best policy I think. Check earth bonding to below 1 ohm and insulation at better than 1 Mohm at 500v. Cookers and hard wired (dont start me on about those stupid new house builders that hard wire everything!) test for bonding to sink top or water pipe and as Tubs says insulation from exposed harness during the repair.
As for pieces of paper that say your some kind of electrical expert .How many of us have seen lids removed from machines to fit under low worktops leaving exposed wiring and fire hazards and this done by kitchen fitters that have passed a two day course and have this piece of paper.I could go on but I better not Wilf
Re: Electrical Safety & Legal Legislation
Tubs wrote:Find this very useful, quick and easy to use.
(PDL 200)
http://www.socketandsee.co.uk/Steve
Thanks for this link Steve. I have sent for a PDL200, looks like a very useful piece of kit.
Cheers, Martin
Re: Electrical Safety & Legal Legislation
You do not have to be Part P ‘approved’ to carry out tests. You only have to be Part P’ed if you carry out installation works in certain areas of a house.
As mentioned, do carry out tests. If there is a problem, it is likey that the IEE Code of Practice for In-Service Inspection and Testing of Electrical Electrical Equipment will be referenced.
Also, I believe the HSE issued advisory notes that are available. These were sent out by DASA to members by DASA a few years ago.
I would also advise the use of a proper Earth Fault Loop Impedance Tester as for non-RCD circuits, the test current is around the 25-amp value & will properly ‘exercise’ all connections and cables around the P-E route.
Re: Electrical Safety & Legal Legislation
kheath wrote:A simple plug in Martindale will check polarity and earth, and takes seconds to do, only good for the ring main though, so no good for Double ovens!
The Martindale Buzz-it (BZ600) is the tool that’s perfect for testing any machine you find is either hard wired or you are unable to access the wall socket for whatever reason. 😀
Loop Testing is all well and good but way over the top for many of us it this business. A ‘spark’ has to use one of course but for us to simply stuff a new element into an oven or fiddle with the pump on an integrated dishwasher then just Buzz-it and be done. 😉
http://www.martindale-electric.co.uk/sockets.htm
Loop Testing was part of a certain Trade Association’s ‘quality criteria’ at one time but even that was abused and ignored by many of it’s members. Some companies even had job dockets and invoices printed with little boxes their engineers could tick to show what readings were taken at the time. It was obligitory for every engineer to tick the boxes on completion, but that didn’t necessarily mean they actually got the loop tester out of the van though?
Re: Electrical Safety & Legal Legislation
😯 Had two recent examples:
1st a 4 year old house with no earth connection. All earth continuity wires went back to consumer unit, then nowhere. Alerted when Loop tester refused to do the test.
2nd a much older property with >10000 ohms loop impedence for a cooker outlet. This installation had satisfactory earth loop impedence on the sockets and at fuse box end of cooker circuit.
Appliance only tests were satisfactory.
Both customers advised not to use appliances until fault rectified.
This was noted on Invoices and customer signatures obtained.
Dread to think what might have happened with an earth fault on the appliances.
Many customers seem to think if it works it must be OK.
Over the years I have seen a number of high risk situations with customers oblivious to the danger and not always best pleased when informed.
Thers is a lot of detail to installation testing / inspection & we don’t always get credit for looking into it but it is a serious issue.
tomRe: Electrical Safety & Legal Legislation
Earthing is considerd a consumer responsibilty by the supply authorities. I have had occassions where an earth has been provided by the energy supplier only to find that the Ze (External Earth Fault Loop Impedance) is still high due to a supply cable sheath failure. Even so the supplier has refused to change to a PME configuration (for lots of different reasons). Keep in mind that pre1967 main earthing was achieved by connection to the water pipe. This was stopped in in approx ’67 because of the introduction of plastic water pipes. Earthing failures or no earth only shows up when we go do a repair call or someone gets a zap! As correctly stated, ‘my electrics are okay ‘cos it works…….’
The only way round this is to use earth rods, 100mA RCD as a main incomer and use a 30mA RCD on the socket outlet circuits etc.
In my view as shown above) always use a loop tester. These plug-testers often use low test currents & could give inappropriate readings.
Anyway enough preaching from me on Boxing Day.
Only remains for me to wish everyone a happy & prosperous new year!!
Re: Electrical Safety & Legal Legislation
i’m an appliance repairman and a pat tester with city and guilds 2377 for pat testing. on that course we were told that the socket outlet was not our concern.howerver any physical damage to, or poor location of a socket outlet used for the item under test should be brought to the attention of the responsible person.
with regard to time taken to test, our tester will perform earth bond, insulation and leakage test in only 20 to 30 seconds. a basic tester or megger shouldn’t really take much longer.
incidentally the pass level for a class one stationary (over 18kgs) item with a heating element (e.g. washing machine) is only 0.3meg.Re: Electrical Safety & Legal Legislation
keithwilliams wrote:incidentally the pass level for a class one stationary (over 18kgs) item with a heating element (e.g. washing machine) is only 0.3meg.
Are you sure?….that’s ridiculously high 😯
Re: Electrical Safety & Legal Legislation
Martin
Take a look at the IEE Code of Practice for In-Service Inspection & Testing of Electrical Equipment page 43, 15.5, table 2. 0.3Mohm applies to Class 1 heating equipment with a rating of equal to or greater than 3kW. For all other Class 1 equipment 1.0Mohm.
The 18kg defines portability – see page 15, 5.1, equipment types.
Generally, insulation values are defined by the equipment power not weight.
Regards
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