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Enough is enough…..
This company uses our forums to advertise his business directly to a post with a problem
By posting “the send it to us ” he is using this free resource to sell his services, then proceeds to sell to the public at trade prices.I’m so annoyed at this practice I’ve wiped his last advert off….maybe I should’nt have done!
So I promise not to do it again if you guys convince me we should allow him to use the resource to advertise his business for free.
Kevin
We can’t really stop him in all honesty, all we can do is pressure him. There’s no legislation in place to wave at him.
Simply applying pressure on his sales should be enough to make him think twice and we can always promote the other one if they’re playing ball. In the end many may not like what we promote at times, but we’ve as much right to promote our business/es as anyone else just as he does, we’re just better and more dedicated at doing it on UKW.
K.
Re: EMW
I don’t have a problem with him posting in the trade forums if it helps someone out with a solution, I do have a problem with him posting in the public forums though, he’s only done it twice and the posts now no longer exist 😉
He will have read the post Martin made so let’s see if he reacts to it.
Is there any point in me trawling the public forums and removing any reference to EMW to stop future referals ?
Dave.
Re: EMW
Tony kicked off tonight a bit 🙁
I hope I’ve calmed the mood, Kev, you need to reply please…
http://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/modules.p … 7218#47218
Cheers 🙂
Re: EMW
I have replied Dave……..
Whether he likes it or not, he is using his membership to directly advertise his business for free to a trade or private customer, and this is where the customer is in trouble. Thats an unfair advantage.
Not a single trade repairer advertises themselves to a person in trouble, rather they are refered to Repairs@, this might be because the postcode at the time is unknown. You can see his approach is commercial gain not in advising “help” with a problem, leading to work for the guys. Whether he sells 1 or 100 modules a week, the fact he does not have a structured price is damning, he bletes on about his costs but is prepared to commecially use whitegoods for free!
As I see it, he commercially gains from the site, delibrately, without paying for the advertisement opportunity. Repairs don’t.
Kevin
Re: EMW
The more I think of this, I have to consider the approach of EMW as spam.
If we allow this type of answer to our posts we will end up with the position where every commercial interest could post on the end of EMW. It could end up where all the parts distributors place their commercial post in an effort to increase their business. Free fall.The threads will be destroyed by spam in my opinion.
So we either allow the situation to continue or we impose a regulated code of conduct for associated trade members who are not repairers. Lets remember we do have areas where we advertise these businesses for free and we do have areas where they can buy advertising space.
Posts trying to sell service, to me, is spam.
KevinRe: EMW
I have to agree with Kev. I know that ken and Dave are far better acquainted with net etiquette than either Kev or myself but when I look at other sites they tell people to seek permission first, to add a link and we should follow suit.
You have asked me to start sell advertising on the site which I am more than happy to do.
But if we are going to give it away for free it doesn’t help me much in my task.This guy is just another case of running with the hare and the hounds he cant have it both ways, if he’s selling to the public and offer them product at the prices we as trade have to pay, then he can pay for the privilege just like Masterpart and all the others I’m about to approach.
Sean
Re: EMW
We want and need to get the trade to talk, treating the guy in the same way as we do not like to be treated, such as deleting posts without consultation or discussion, is tantamount to the same behaviour.
I do not think that we should lower ourselves to that level quite frankly.
I have also stated on several occasions that the only posts that would be deleted are spam ones, however whether or not this was spam I cannot comment on as I did not have the chance to read it.
K.
Re: EMW
As I’ve previously posted I won’t delete his post, but his approach is bad for our site.
We should put in place or retain the authority to stop commercial posting one after another on a thread. If this guy gets away with it, others will follow. CDSL/masterpart/homespare/washvac will be able to post a “buy the spare from us” type of post following a request from the public for help on where to purchase a part from. This is not in keeping with the idea of the forums, well I don’t think so anyway.
KevinRe: EMW
Masterpart and Homespare already do post in the trade forums, I don’t think to my knowledge any of them have ever posted in the public forums but have helped me identify part numbers on occasion but never advertised who they are to the public.
Tony has done it twice in the public forums….
As I said, I don’t think we should stop them telling the trade who they are or what they do and that includes EMW but we should discourage the public posts as that is tantamount to spamming and advertising which they should pay for IMO.
Dave.
Re: EMW
Look, it’s this simple really, but startling complex at the same time…
UKW is a resource and we spam looking for business from Repairs@ and Shop@ on a daily basis, why is anyone else so different? Are we to close the doors simply because it may encrouch on a couple of sales?
It’s fooking petty and I’d wish we’d just stop it right now.
If these guys want to attempt to promote themselves then so be it, we’re better than they are, so what the fook, it’s one or two sales. In the end it’s not what we’re after and it sure ain’t worth all this shite over.
EMW is a small player in a big pond, just get over it.
The issue is larger, I fully realise that and posted so this evening but what was the point of victiimising EMW? Should we victimise anyone, as that was what was done here and, if anything, it’s only served to alienate us from some people, nothing more.
Kevin, it may well have annoyed you but that was not reason enough to simply delete the post, just because YOU were pissed about it. We don’t all hold the same viewpoint and I do think that it should have been discussed before it was deleted as it was relevant, it was an answer and it was from within the industry. Whether you like or agree with the company in question is, frankly, irrelevant.
I don’t agree with a lot of things, but sitting in the big chair you have to put up with shit you don’t like, that’s just the way it is. I have to play Devil’s Advocate and, quite honestly, shit like that is only making my job harder.
So far I’ve had a PM and two mails complaining about it and the way it was handled, I don’t blame them. We are not here to dictate how people run their businesses which is how this was seen, on UKW or otherwise, we have to use more subtle means, what was done here was not in any way subtle at all.
I’m not trying to chew you, or anyone, out on this at all but you do have to consider the implications of actions. You also have to consider the implications of what is said and of the impression given of UKW, not you. You acted in the way that you thought best, fine. But that has implications for the way in which UKW is viewed.
In this instance it has been seen as, if UKW doesn’t like it then it gets deleted but if it fits with our plans then it’s fine. We can’t play that game I’m afraid as that’s for the twats like NESN, not us.
Whilst I may not like a lot of whats on here, some of it I’d dearly love to delete and forget, it has always been my position that I defend from a position of strength, logical argument and reasoning. removing that post simply served to remove any argument or debate from the equation and puts me and UKW in a position of weakness as the action was taken without discussion or notification, exactly the actions I’d expect of many that we slag off on a daily basis.
I’m not saying that some things don’t want deleting, what I’m saying is think long and hard before deleting anything beyond a blatent spam message or something frivilous as the consequences could be very serious.
K.
Re: EMW
Your long winded message is understood, though if you read the above posts you’ll see I’ve already said (twice) I won’t repeat the action.
I still hold the view that the post was SPAM and thats that.
EMW have lost £1500 worth of my business over this and to refer to them as a VICTIM is a little over the top. And if you read my answer to Tony you’ll see that I replied exactly why I deleted his post.
As for 3 complaints, ok I have to regard those as unfortunate. As for you playing Devils advocate, well, if you think stirring up Whirlpool with your post, as playing Devils advocate, we’ll have to agree to diagree.Ultimately its your site, np, I’ll not delete any post you can then judge the merits for yourself.
Kevin
Re: EMW
Can we cool it a little. First of all Kev has stated that he wont delete any more posts regarding spaming from trade members.
The fact still remains that EMW are charging us the same price as joe public and that aint on. That was a view held by us all so i dont see them as victims, just tossers, who make our job even harder.When it comes to slaggin people off then i’m affraid no one is exempt
if they incurr the displeasure of any of our members, it is not something that should only be reserved for manufacturers or large networks.I seem to remember someone saying to me ” I’ll not be gagged ! ” quite right and niether will any fooker else. As I pointed out at the time there are always potential consequences for any remark or post made.
Granted that as Admin of UKW our posts have to be more measured and balanced than most but we are still entitled to our own individual opinions, and as part of the ukw community also entitled to express them on the site irrespective of who owns it.
Sean
I’m not having a go Kev, not the intent at all. I’d probably have been asa pissed off as you about it, just as I am about the whole Unifit affair as I really don’t want them selling retail at all, any of them.
I mean, who’s next, CDSL, SEME…
The trouble is that we have to try to balance keeping these guys in check whilst not falling out with them.
The other problem is that we may well end up pissing in their pondeventually as well by selling to the trade and, for sure, our own appliance will not go down well in those camps I expect. So in essence we’re walking a tightrope here politically.
As for Whirlpool, well those twats deserve all they get. 😆
Seriously though, UKW has always been out to champion the small guys in this game and so, Whirlpool and some of the ramifications of Whirlpool’s actions could affect us massively and our ability to produce profit from any work, charge work now included. Again, who’s next to do this, Lux, CDA, CDSL, MFI…
We’ve got bigger fish to fry and bigger fights to pick.
K.
Re: EMW
Heh, I’m not talking about gagging anyone at all.
What I am talking about is balance and measured response.
My take on it is that I would have talked to Tony about it first, then taken the appropriate action after that.
As fro “victimising”, that comes from what Dave said about others posting similiarly in the public forums, why pick just EMW? I’m not asking anyone to not delete any more posts at all and I’m certainly not playing the “my ball, I’m not playing” card at all. I’m trying to understand what went off, why, how and how to avoid it in the future. There’s fook all point in falling out over silly things like this, but use the knowledge gained to make it better. We’ve been doing that fro two years now and it seems to work, so let’s not change it eh?
Kev and I disagree all the time, but it works as we’ll often come up with an acceptable answer through reasoned discussion, like this. I call him a twat, he calls me a twat, we get drunk and all is well.
All this has done is to make us really think about policy on such things.
K.
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