Freezer Placement

[ljhhuk]

Re: Freezer Placement

The original poster in this thread wanted to put an upright freezer in his outhouse but the replies talked mainly about chest freezers.
Someone told me that a self defrosting freezer was a bad idea because it needs a normal room temperature for the defrosting process to work but it is ok to put a manual defrost freezer in a garage.
I have just lost my big chest freezer which has been in my garage for about 2 years and was at least 10 years old when I got it second hand. It just stopped freezing and I lost a lot of food. Could have been old age?

I have another small chest freezer still in the garage – been there for about 6 years, still going strong. I live on the east coast of Scotland – it gets very cold in the winter.

Anyone got any ideas or opinions specifically about upright freezers in a garage or is the advice basically the same?

[NeilB]

Re: Freezer Placement

Martin wrote:

NeilB wrote:
I’m a little bemused by the problem as I would have thought the insulation was there to prevent room air from condensing regardless of the ambient air temperature

The insulation is there purely to minimise temperature loss from within the appliance and not without. Condensation forms on the outside surface of any appliance (including things like double glazing) capable of heat retention not just fridges and freezers.

+10 degrees Celsius is recognised by most refrigeration manufacturers as the cut-off point to guarantee minimal atmospheric reaction to the dreaded “dewpoint”. Below that temperature and you’ve got yourself a problem. 🙁

I’ve not got any condensation forming on the sides of the unit, but there is tons of water forming under the base. The insulation here seems to be external – a kind of multi-wall sheet that is in several pieces and has tape over the joints. the joints are not tight fitting and I am guessing that the temperature of the base is very cold hence the extrnal insulation to minimise condensation. I’m still speaking to the manufacturer to find out if this external insulation is provided for this reason. If so I have to options – return for a refund as unit is faulty/not fit for purpose or I may consider replacing the external insulation with some phenolic foam sheet insulation trimmed to fit properly.

[kwatt]

Re: Freezer Placement

ljhhuk wrote:Anyone got any ideas or opinions specifically about upright freezers in a garage or is the advice basically the same?

There are no machines that I’ve seen recently that I’d consider fit for the purpose. All you can do is read the specs on the appliance and see if it will cope with the temperature range.

K.

[kwatt]

Re: Freezer Placement

NeilB wrote:I’ve not got any condensation forming on the sides of the unit, but there is tons of water forming under the base. The insulation here seems to be external – a kind of multi-wall sheet that is in several pieces and has tape over the joints. the joints are not tight fitting and I am guessing that the temperature of the base is very cold hence the extrnal insulation to minimise condensation. I’m still speaking to the manufacturer to find out if this external insulation is provided for this reason. If so I have to options – return for a refund as unit is faulty/not fit for purpose or I may consider replacing the external insulation with some phenolic foam sheet insulation trimmed to fit properly.

Thing is Neil that the metal is there to finish the product, it doesn’t insulate at all so on the base there’s no requirement for it to be there really and of course gravity will make sure that that’s where any moisture ends up.

If the machine is being used in a cold environment, outwith the specified temperature range, then the manufacturer is quite within their rights to wash their hands of it. After all they have said that it cannot be used in that sort of environment and wishing or hoping that it would will not change the physics.

From the manufacturer’s point of view you have to ask why they should help if simple installation instructions are not adhered to and the machine is not used in accordance with their guidlines. Like any other product, it doesn’t matter what, if you use it in a way that is not recommended then any warranty goes South, most warranty terms explain this quite clearly.

The only option is to take it up with the retailer so long as you can prove that you clearly stated the use to which the macine was being put and the placement of the appliance as then the retailer should not have sold you the appliance as it was not suitable for your requirements. Other than that there’s really not much you can do and even getting a replacement product would simply mean you will have the same problem again at a later date.

The single biggest problem with major domestic appliances of all types is that most people expect them to all be the same and perform as well as one another and that is simply not true. They are not just a bland white box, there’s a lot more to it than that but there’s very little information out there for people to make an informed decision and what you do get, as was demonstrated by Pat’s experience with his retailer is very often, at best misguided, but more often just totally and utterly wrong.

K.

[NeilB]

Re: Freezer Placement

kwatt wrote:If the machine is being used in a cold environment, outwith the specified temperature range, then the manufacturer is quite within their rights to wash their hands of it. After all they have said that it cannot be used in that sort of environment and wishing or hoping that it would will not change the physics.

From the manufacturer’s point of view you have to ask why they should help if simple installation instructions are not adhered to and the machine is not used in accordance with their guidlines. Like any other product, it doesn’t matter what, if you use it in a way that is not recommended then any warranty goes South, most warranty terms explain this quite clearly.

I agree fully with what you are saying but in my case there was no point of sale information suggesting that the freezer could only be used within prescribed temperature limits and no requirement other than “must be in a well ventilated room” in the manufacturers instructions as suplied with the appliance. The manufacturer has now specified the minimum temperature and suggested that I should have known this. I’ve therefore asked them to provide me with any documentation, either POS or instructions that demonstrate this as otherwise my unfit-for-purpose argument will be taken further.

It also does not help that the local service engineer who was sent in by the manufacturer simply stood infront of the unit and made his decision without any kind of inspection – I could not even get him to wait while I moved the freezer to show him the amount of water that had been dposited on the floor overnight!

I’m aiming to make some temperature measurements over the weekend as I’m still convinced that the problem with my freezer is that the base of the freezer has no internal insulation so the only element that prevents room air hitting casework that is at around the same temperature as the internal compartment is the external insulation sheets, and these are badly installed with lots of gaps. This means that room air passes through to the metalwork which is at a temperature well below freezing therefore causing the condensation I’m experiencing. This is either poor design or bad manufacturing as the room air should not be exposed to any part of the uninsulated casing as far as I am concerned. If the condensation was only due to the fully insulated external casing being at ambient room temp then I would relocate the freezer and see if the problem went away. I am not doing this just now as the volume of water is significant and my kitchen is carpeted so I do not want to damage the carpet in proving my suspicions. I am hoping that when I get back to the manufacturer with some measured temperatures from the base of the freezer then they will accept there is a problem and want to do something about it.

I’m only glad that I knew of the forum as it has been an invaluable resource in both diagnosing the problem and specialist advice. 🙂

[Author]

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