Hotpoint 1509 2-pole will work in 9605???

[ConnorM]

Maybe I should formally serialise this thread ( 🙂 ), as this is the second in my “will a 1509 spare work on a 9605”. This time it’s the motor I’m interested in.

My understanding is that the 1509 was first produced with a 4-pole motor. This was superseded by a 2-pole. Later on, the 9605 also adopted the a 2-pole solution. My suspicion is the late 1509 2-pole and 9605 2-pole are interchangeable … but is that true?

Only you experts can help!

And while we’re on the subject, am I right in thinking that the main difference bewteen these motors is in torque / revs per min (higher / less with the 1509)?

Your help much appreciated as always.

[electrofix]

Re: Hotpoint 1509 2-pole will work in 9605???

you are correct from 1509 dat code 02 the 2 cpole motor was used but from memory 1509 2 pole was relay start think it used same relay as twin tub later 96 series use capacitor start although in theory they do the same job the motor has to be reversed ans you have to find how to incorporate the relay and mount it in a vertical position oterwise they jam

had a look for 1509 manual bu cant find it but did find 96 series and it is a 3 wire motor the 1509 had 6 2 wires where for a thermal cutout because of the high current start winding

hope it helps

Dave

[electrofix]

Re: Hotpoint 1509 2-pole will work in 9605???

you dont say where in gb you are or why you want to change motor

what is wrong with yours

the later motors where very reliable electrically but the bearings sometimes siezed and destroyed the shaft but you cauld buy a rotor and repair them any other problems where caused by the pump leaking ( this never happenend on the 4 pole motors as they where running at half the speed )

Dave

[ConnorM]

Re: Hotpoint 1509 2-pole will work in 9605???

electrofix wrote:you dont say where in gb you are or why you want to change motor

what is wrong with yours

the later motors where very reliable electrically but the bearings sometimes siezed and destroyed the shaft but you cauld buy a rotor and repair them any other problems were caused by the pump leaking ( this never happenend on the 4 pole motors as they where running at half the speed )

Dave

Ah, you’re a canny one! Plates in stator buckled because of a water leak from the pump. This (distorted radial field?) I’m guessing then played havoc with the tolerance ring / bearings. In particular the upper bearing seemed to have more give in one direction perpendicular to the rotor axis, suggesting it had made the bearing eliptical; it certainly sounded that way – bit like a light aircraft 😆

Anyhow, I much appreciated your input re the 1509 / 9605 differences. I’ll need to chew those over and maybe have a stab at coming back with a semi-intelligent further question.

Thanks again.

[electrofix]

Re: Hotpoint 1509 2-pole will work in 9605???

been at this over 30 years seen most things

if shaft ok bearings can be replaced they use standard bearings cant remember numbers but if taken out they can be matched by a bearing supplier

you can still get pumps no prob but i heard hotpoint where buying pumps from the pattern boys so no point in using a gen part

checked on motor now obsolete think i may have a stator but would have to dig around which is why i asked you where you live

dave

[ConnorM]

Re: Hotpoint 1509 2-pole will work in 9605???

electrofix wrote:been at this over 30 years seen most things

if shaft ok bearings can be replaced they use standard bearings cant remember numbers but if taken out they can be matched by a bearing supplier

you can still get pumps no prob but i heard hotpoint where buying pumps from the pattern boys so no point in using a gen part

checked on motor now obsolete think i may have a stator but would have to dig around which is why i asked you where you live

dave

Dave, thanks so much for your interest. Really appreciated.

I’ve changed the bearings on the 9605 at least twice. I used standard bearings – skf whatever it was. Worked okay, but shorter life than those fitted originally. Believe it has something to do with the heat coming from the cluth housing expanding the outside of the race (iirc the heat usuually comes from the axle – ie the inside of the race, so bearings usually start a little loose and tighten up, whereas in the clutch housing they do the opposite; I’m sure you’ll put me straight – amazing what a machine like this can teach you! 🙂 )

Your talk of a replacement stator is interesting as plate distortion (rust) is the main factor behind me not rebuilding my duff motor. Of course, the shaft may still be bent. I guess a quick nest might be sto spin it up in a drill chuck. Thoughts?

PS : am on south coast.

[electrofix]

Re: Hotpoint 1509 2-pole will work in 9605???

have replaced bearings but never noticed any problem with shortened life. as you say the clutch one usually went dry with age as the grease dried with the heat

sound good spinning up should show any bend in the shaft

with the rust you are talking sounds like its been leaking for a while so check the water has done no other damage

check the brake solenoid these are covered but can fail if they get too wet

also look inside the base where the shaft goes through to the tub

look at http://www.4ourhouse.co.uk/cgi-bin/sear … art=151213

you can see the rubber bellows over time this gets pushed off by corrosion and if it leaks in this area you are in for a big strip down

also check the pulley on the gearbox for play on the early models they had a bearing holding the pulley but to save money they removed it result lower gearbox bearing wears and starts to leak oil
what i am trying to say is you have to know when to stop. the 9605 was introduced in may 1989 so all the components are that age. have not seen one for a while but in the age of fitted kitchens a top loader is out of place, hence their demise

Dave

[ConnorM]

Re: Hotpoint 1509 2-pole will work in 9605???

electrofix wrote:with the rust you are talking sounds like its been leaking for a while so check the water has done no other damage

check the brake solenoid these are covered but can fail if they get too wet

Roger that Dave. Took a look at the £ of brake solenoids : :eeek:

Sounds like something to watch out for!

electrofix wrote:also look inside the base where the shaft goes through to the tub

look at http://www.4ourhouse.co.uk/cgi-bin/sear … art=151213

you can see the rubber bellows over time this gets pushed off by corrosion and if it leaks in this area you are in for a big strip down

I’ve done the “big strip down” a year ago, in search of the grinding noise .. which was actually coming from the motor :rolls: live & learn eh? Incidentally, the seal face on that support tube post: does it ever need replacing, or is the weat all taken on the carbon seal face that meets it?

electrofix wrote:
also check the pulley on the gearbox for play on the early models they had a bearing holding the pulley but to save money they removed it result lower gearbox bearing wears and starts to leak oil

I’ve had the gearbox to pieces (during the “big strip down” and fitted a new seal, so hopefully that will not need doing for a while.

electrofix wrote:what i am trying to say is you have to know when to stop.

yeah, but I’m mental – oh, and I’m doing it for my dear old Mum, who simply could not live w/o her T/l. 😆

electrofix wrote:
the 9605 was introduced in may 1989 so all the components are that age. have not seen one for a while but in the age of fitted kitchens a top loader is out of place, hence their demise

Dave

Think this 9605 is a mid-teenager. Hopefully still life in her, plus I have a brand new 9605 motor, top-hat seal kit, pump, capacitor, clutch assembly, plus other sh spares. I’m in for the long haul! 😆

I’ll test that shaft and may be asking you more about that stator.

Regs and thanks agin for your interest.

[electrofix]

Re: Hotpoint 1509 2-pole will work in 9605???

carbon face seal is reliable only thing that happens is corrosion pushes counterface out of support tube

weight is taken by the large bearing at the bottom of the support tube mounted on the neck of the gearbox so no weight on seal

the old hotpoint top loader is a brilliant machine but became too costly to produce my mother had a 1502 model and i replaced it with a 1504 which was the best model they produced after that it was all down hill

1504 had 4 pole motor (runs half speed of yours) clutch shoes where like car rear brake shoes an ali body with a friction material stuck to it. the pump had 4 blades as it was doing half the speed and was rare to leak unlike later models. the gearbox had a needle bearing at the bottom of the pulley so the weight of the belt drive did not wear lower bearing and start an oil leak
the changes where down to cost and the veiw if it lasted 5 years then its ok shame but that the way things are now but with carbon emmisions on the aganda things may change

Dave

[ConnorM]

Re: Hotpoint 1509 2-pole will work in 9605???

electrofix wrote:carbon face seal is reliable only thing that happens is corrosion pushes counterface out of support tube

Nice info. I can see how that can happen.

electrofix wrote:
the old hotpoint top loader is a brilliant machine but became too costly to produce my mother had a 1502 model and i replaced it with a 1504 which was the best model they produced after that it was all down hill

1504 had 4 pole motor (runs half speed of yours) clutch shoes where like car rear brake shoes an ali body with a friction material stuck to it.

http://www.buyspares.co.uk/hotpoint/150 … ref=519364

8)

http://yourspares.hostedbyamazon.co.uk/ … ce=froogle

😥

electrofix wrote:
the pump had 4 blades as it was doing half the speed and was rare to leak unlike later models. the gearbox had a needle bearing …

Okay, okay, you’ve depressed me enough 🙁 ( 🙂

electrofix wrote:shame but that the way things are now but with carbon emmisions on the aganda things may change

Dave

Ah, years of wisdom and knowledge, and still you cling to the desperate hope that somebody, some day, will do th eright thing, instead of invent some other spin as to why we should just pile more money into the pockets of bureaucrats, regulators, lawyers and bankers! IIRC car scrappage was sold as “trading gas guzzlers in for greener models”. I rest my cynical case! 8)

[electrofix]

Re: Hotpoint 1509 2-pole will work in 9605???

lol

did not know you could still get old clutch shoes brings back memories

Dave

[ConnorM]

Re: Hotpoint 1509 2-pole will work in 9605???

On the subject of the bent motor shaft, I spun up the 9605 rotor in a drill chuck over the w/e. I came to the conclusion I need new bearings in my drill 😕 Am now wondering whether any bend might show up by just placing shaft ends on two parallel level ‘rails’ and seeing if the rotor has a tendency to roll.

One further question if I may : wrt gearbox outer support tubes, I note this link suggests they are interchangable on 96xx and 15xx(x) series :

http://www.buyspares.co.uk/product.pl?pid=682032

However this pic of a 1509 :

suggests that there might be a difference. It would seem that the tube of the 1509 comes in two parts: the stem and the seal housing. The seal housing appears to be in the bottom left corner.

So what is the truth? Are 1509 gearbox outer support tubes the same as 9605 outer support tubes?

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and experience.

[electrofix]

Re: Hotpoint 1509 2-pole will work in 9605???

this is probably an early one the motor change was at date code 02

if you look at shaft not only is top separate but if you look at the bottom of the shaft there is no bulge where the bearing went instead there is a bearing ( this type http://www.brammer.co.uk/uk/thrust_bear … ammer.aspx) at the top with hardened faces on the top of the shaft ( missing in this picture ) and on the underside of the tub support. old type of seal had an ali centre that sat on the pegs of the shaft

Dave

[ConnorM]

Re: Hotpoint 1509 2-pole will work in 9605???

Ah-ha!

So basically, what you’re saying is this a a bit of a freak for a 1509, no? Am I right in thinking that if this machine has a 6 wire 2-pole motor it’s support post would be a match for 9605s?

Sorry for all the questions. You’ve made me realise how important the support tube is on these machines, so I’m looking to acquire a spare. The wider I can cast the net, the better.

Regs

[electrofix]

Re: Hotpoint 1509 2-pole will work in 9605???

hotpoint used to supply a power system which was all the middle less the motor
to answer your question the complete middle from the early machine should fit but you may not be able to swop components. although the inside of the gearbox did not change later ones have a groove for the circlip to hold the bearing. you could put the early support tube in but you would also have to put in the top bearing and the early tub support as the later one did not have the hardened ring for the thrust bearing.
i cant remember the dates everthing changed but the main one is the motor change at date code 02 unfortunatly i cant find my early tech manual only the later 96 series one

NB if an earlier machine had been fitted with a new power kit then it would be fitted with the later support tube

Dave

ps have a look as this on ebay

item number
110697209489

cant tell from picture if its burnt out or not also some motors are relay start not capacitor think this may be a relay one 1509 series it was later they started using a cap, but the centre shafts are all the same and unless bearing siezes and damages shaft will be ok

[Author]

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