- This topic has 22 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 21 years, 3 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Just a note to say thanks for using Amazon. Obviously there’s been a few people using the Amazon shop or link to buy stuff for Xmas and it’s going to put about £200 or so in the UKW Subscriber coffers. 😀
There is also a few bob going in from the Google module as well which is starting, in conjunction with the subscriber payments, to build up a nice little fund for us all. It’s not a huge amount, but it’s a start.
It all does make a difference!
For the New Year and, in particular, for the Feb UKW meeting I would ask that you all think about and discuss what use you want made of these funds. It’s YOUR money so you decide what you want done with it.
Whilst I’m more than happy to guide and advise from my perspective with my NWAR hat on I will not dictate on this subject, it simply has to be a consensus of opinion from everyone. What I will say and, I hope he pipes up, is that both Martin and I more or less came up with many similar ideas on this topic.
On a personal level I want to see this used wisely for the betterment of all as that was the sole intention of the entire enterprise, to improve, to help and to make us that little bit more secure. High ideals, but I never said it would happen quickly or be easy nor did I ever expect it to be so. I do however think that it is something worthy of discussion and trying to achieve.
No-one’s ever done it, let’s show the way.
K.
Re: Revenue Report
kwatt wrote:What I will say and, I hope he pipes up, is that both Martin and I more or less came up with many similar ideas on this topic.
Ken,
Show a red rag to a bull eh 😆 Well here goes………
Regarding Subscribers Funds, I would like to propose that they be utilised, administered and agreed solely by the (soon to be formed) Advisory Council in the following ways : –
1). To provide a Rainy Day Fund for any individual member to ‘borrow’ on a fixed term basis should that member get into financial difficulties and need access to a short term business cash injection.
2). Funding set aside for Legal Representation used in a similar vein and purpose as the Rainy Day Fund, should any member require support for his/her business.
3). Exclusive access to Shared Technical Information including software, software up-dates, PDF files and Service Manuals compiled exclusively by UKW and under UKW copyright controls.
4). Members funds to be used to purchase hardware/equipment needed to utilise item 3 above.
5). Commercial Vehicle Insurance Co-operative, enabling members to get discounted insurance renewals through one Insurance Underwriter approved and commissioned by UKW.
6). Public Liability Insurance, again as in item 5 above.
Many other ‘items’ could easily be added as I am sure to have overlooked something. It is recognised that members would wish their hard earned money to be invested in solid, well thought out and agreed on projects, for the benefit of each and every subscriber.
May my comments form part of a major item on the agenda for discussion at the next and indeed future meetings should it be necessary.
Martin
Re: Revenue Report
1 and 2 are perfectly and easily do-able.
3 has some issues with copyright with the manufacturers, but I should imagine that if we pay for it we’d get it.
4 is do-able.
5 is something I want to seriously investigate in the New Year time permitting. 😕
6, pretty much the same and goes hand-in-hand with 5 really.
Obviously when it comes to the likes of the insurance thing we’d need to agree just how many of us were approaching one company or broker and take it if the deal were right. It would also involve additional payment to provide it, not that I don’t think anyone wouldn’t realise that but it is worth making it clear.
It also fits with my remit for UKW in this vein which is that if you don’t use it, you don’t pay for it.
The war chest idea has been long mooted and we’ve been slow on it for one reason only, lack of funds. However I still believe that it is a superb use of funds and, when the time is right, I will move that funding to a high interest account to further its growth.
Currently, or at least very shortly, there will be two accounts for UKW (we’ve nothing to hide here BTW) one is the subscribers cash which consists of all you guy’s money that’s paid in as well as revenues from Amazon and Google which are doing quite nicely at the moment and bouncing it up. The other account is UKW the business, where revenue from additional advertising and other projects go as we do consider them to be commercial enterprises like spares sales revenue, sponsorship revenue etc.
I have a few ides in my head to allow the subscribers get more money in the pot for little effort and bugger all investment and I will work some more on that as soon as I have the time to do so. It may not be a fortune in each area, but it all adds up and gives us a bit more financial clout as the funds build.
Do bear in mind though that this is not a short-term thing at all, I want to build this to benefit us of course, but I also want it to stand the test of time and ensure a bit of stability for everyone’s future.
K.
Re: Revenue Report
to “borrow” might involve credit licenses and would be hard to get these in this day and age.
Kevin
Re: Revenue Report
I’m beginning to like the look of this.
It starts with a germ of an Idea and before you know it up come some very good and valid points. Pat on the back for Martin I think, he has put up exactly what we should be working towards, a case of “Why didn’t I think of that, or why didn’t I put that up”?
The sharing of information has been bandied about before, but never taken off; I suspect because some have this information, but are reluctant to release to a competitor who may be browsing & get something for nothing. Whereas, if in the subscriber forum, you are dealing with a friend and colleague instead of your local unfriendly rip-off merchant. That should raise the credibilty of UKW and set us on the way to more recognition in the trade.
The pooling or banding of companies to create a buying partnership regards insurance etc. Great, will save money; but there are too many doing that anyway, (Corgi, Retra, F.P.B. F.S.B. or possibly DASA if they wake up from hibernation). We could take it further with Diesel cards, stationary or office suppliers as well as block advertising in Yellow pages.
Why not web design? Offer every Subscriber a single page web through UKW, Maybe they pay for their own domain name and we could expand their website and set charges according to requirements. All the links could be put in to other members sites, or even an auto divert to your own site you already own.
The list is endless, and the possibilities are mind boggling.
The trade knows we are out there, and they look in from time to time. It is difficult for us to go anywhere without becoming a Trade Association, Trade Union or Cartel. However we must ensure we do not fall into the category of a guerrilla movement.
We are a group of like minded professionals, and must not be confused with a group of professional minders.
Alex
Re: Revenue Report
Point taken Kevin, we may have to investigate that further.
Alex, this is that sort of stuff that we always should have been working towards and I have been. 😉
The issue with copyrighted materials from manufacturers stands, but if we pay for the use of that then I really can’t see an issue. It all comes down to cost and deciding if it’s worth doing.
The list is endless of what can be done, all it takes is a bit of time, some dedication and a whole heap of work.
In my eyes, the days of the unions, to an extent associations and cartels is done. We’ve seen that all before and it seems not to work, or at least not to work in the long-term and that is the primary reason that UKW will never go in that direction. What we have to do and, for the large part Kevin, Dave and myself are tasked with, is to build something different that is stronger and will stand the test of time so this is an entirely new approach to some age old problems.
I’m not saying that we’ll win every battle or that we’ll succeed in every area but I do think we’ve got a damned good chance of winning more than we lose and let’s face it, what’s to be lost in trying?
K.
Re: Revenue Report
kheath wrote:to “borrow” might involve credit licenses and would be hard to get these in this day and age.
No, no, no, the point is, we do not need to take that route. Much better to regard UKW Subscriber Funding as a Private Members Club and deal with such things as ‘loans’ to individual members as a strictly private written agreement within. Whereas Credit Licences are mostly to do with public domain transactions, consumer rights and all that baloney.
Alex wrote:The pooling or banding of companies to create a buying partnership regards insurance etc. Great, will save money; but there are too many doing that anyway, (Corgi, Retra, F.P.B. F.S.B. or possibly DASA if they wake up from hibernation).
I’m not sure of the value one gets from the likes of Corgi, Retra etc’s schemes. I suspect it is a cunning scheme they set up to fool members into thinking there is greater reason in joining their association and citing it as a ‘benefit’. But as we may well know, one can often search around for cheaper deals and be better off for it. However, it surely must be viable to at least enquire if UKW could negotiate such a facility with Insurance Companies and Brokers.
Buying a block insurance policy for a fleet of say 5 vans would mean some percentage discounted premium I would imagine. If we therefore could multiply that at least tenfold as a UKW based scheme would possibly mean even greater discount hopefully 🙂
Alex wrote:The trade knows we are out there, and they look in from time to time. It is difficult for us to go anywhere without becoming a Trade Association
Oh dear 🙁 , the very mention of Trade Association brings shivers down many a spine, that’s for sure. I am sure UKW will take a more 21st century approach to the needs of this industry in a more democratic and realistic way derived through greater individual participation. By that I mean each and every member calls the shots and sets the standards without the beaurocratic dogma that has plagued this trade for years and got it in the mess it is now in. 😡
The key word here I suggest is INDEPENDENCE and UKW and its members in time will have enough CLOUT to help direct the whole whitegoods industry back on a level footing by influencing public opinion against the moguls that produce so much crap and treat us like pond life 👿
And this ideal can only be brought about by encouraging even more to join our ranks and to voice their own independent opinions freely. However we must first offer some incentive for them to participate by providing certain ‘benefits’ such as we are presently discussing.
Positive proposals need to be put in place meanwhile prior to the next meeting (in Feb). Then acted on immediately by delegation to get things moving as soon as is possible and not allow anything to get bogged down and delayed. Ideas in ‘ones head’ are all well and good but I for one cannot accept unnecessary delays otherwise we will be talking over the same stuff at every 6 monthly meeting and not getting anywhere. 🙁
Martin
Re: Revenue Report
What a good discussion. Planning for the future in an organised manner is one of the things we should be working towards at all times.
May I point out that, as has been said once or twice before, this is still relatively early days for UKW. Whilst we have a healthy trade membership, it is still tiny in relation to the overall size of the service industry.
Therefore, I would like to see us round up the 20k+ bods we haven’t got yet. Some sort of promotion required, maybe not internet based.
Let’s face it, I’m reasonably bright, but it was still a complete fluke that I found UKW (Anybody muttering “Wish he hadn’t” is in trouble… 🙄 ). I had no idea that it was out there!
The current proposals are all excellent and should be followed up and hopefully activated. They will all add to the attractiveness of being a part of UKW.
Regards,
Chris.Re: Revenue Report
Penguin45 wrote:Therefore, I would like to see us round up the 20k+ bods we haven’t got yet. Some sort of promotion required, maybe not internet based.
Already in hand and will happen early in the New Year. 😉
K.
Re: Revenue Report
Penguin45 wrote:but it was still a complete fluke that I found UKW
That’s the way most of the guys have come across UKW I think, apart from the mailing list guys and the initial email promotion Ken did at the outset.
I had a trade guy in the other day who happened to mention he’d seen my name on a website with a walking caveman next to it 😆
Dave.
Re: Revenue Report
Most of the ideas here are sound pretty good, excepting the ‘rainy day fund’ I am not so certain that would be such a great idea and has the potential to bleed any funds we have/will have in a flash as well as causing bad feeling should that money not be re-paid. I would not be too happy if these funds were being used to prop up a poorly managed business. OK most of us here know each other too an extent but the potential is there for someone to take advantage.
Re: Revenue Report
I like the look of alot of the ideas, but without looking to be uncharitable to fellow members, the only people that should be getting benefit from much of this, is those that subscribe to UKW. I appreciate that Ken has never wanted to coerce people into joining the subscription area, but the success of UKW means that shortly the time will arrive where levels of membership might be considered. The amazing progress of UKW has meant to many, FREE salvation at a time of most need, fellow strugglers to chat to, technical information across the manufacturer range and info about dodgy work providers. Where else is such a FREE service available?? The monies paid by subscribers should be used to improve the subscribers lot (after all we don’t pay much) If the rest realize they are missing out, perhaps they will then subscribe, thence as my old nan used to say ‘more money more honey’ . The greatest force in our business since the coal fired copper lives again!!!
Re: Revenue Report
okay, 1am and a bit of vodka later…
The “rainy day” provision should only be available where we deem it to be viable, if it’s even possible to do and there’s two levels of unique control set in place by the way I think on such things. “oh shit, I’m short for the VAT man this month” is not what it’s for. I would think more along the lines of requiring help to bring on a trainee or suchlike, each circumstance has its own merits and they should be taken as such. From time to time I’m sure we could all do with a hand.
However, that all depends on the funding availble at the time as well which will be determined by the appropriate route as in, Advisory Council and then (if required) the directors. Between the two a balance should always be struck and, personally, I think that’s the sensible course to take.
Make no mistake, the role of the Advisory Council, as I dubbed it, is paramount in many a circumstance and, if I have my way and things go the way I want it will be a paid position, not just a title and a poisoned chalice. There are ways, but these things take time to mature. 😉
As to the “free” issue, I take the points made, God knows I’ve heard them often enough from many quarters but I will continue to argue that this is your resource and that the information should be freely available, even from manufacturers et all.
There are a lot of things that I/we could chose to make subscriber only if we so wish and the time will come when that will most likely have to happen, but chosing the right time is paramount. Right now, most of the people with a bit of foresight are reading this but we have to show others the way forward and the future and then, and only then, ask that they input in such a way. It will happen I think, but I do not think that ramming it down people’s throats is the way forward. Showing people the way, is.
It is also true that you get nothing for nothing in this life but there are other ways to fund what we want and need to do, I prefer to look to the alternatives and take every advantage I can to further our cause/s. That does not require that we “sell out”, merely that we alter our perspective somewhat on how we view ourselves.
Essentially, right now, we have little marketable value as we are seen as a rabble, disorganised and disjointed. We can change that perception, many of the comments here show that. So IMO we should stop pissing about and get on with what we have to do to ensure our own futures. Okay, it means a bit of input and maybe a bit of work but, hell, we’re doing a lot of it behind the scenes anyway, take advantage of it.
There are some great ideas here, some fantastic people that are inputing a lot to UKW to further its success and, I truly hope, make their lives a bit easier, better and more profitable. Whether or not they pay for that privilege is not the issue, getting to where we want to be is.
K.
Ken…
It’s a fascinating thread – how should we SPEND the subscribers money? And we’re not – we’re working out ways to save us all money (which is brill!). Putting it in a rainy day slush fund is admirable – but we ain’t spending any!If we are a bit ahead at the moment, I would suggest giving a decent chunk to the tech bods who keep us on-line and maybe buying yourself a decent evening out (You’re going to say no if I say “Stick it in your pocket – you deserve it”).
When you get down to it, the influence we are projecting doesn’t need actual cash – a bit in reserve is always handy – but it’s not really what it’s about.
If some of our “benefits” come about from this thread, nothing really changes. Our day to day work continues at the open forum level – free to all – and maybe we can encourage others to join us at this level.
Personally, I think a fiver a month is too cheap, but how do you justify change when we’re still not coming up with SPENDING options!!
Chris.
Penguin45 wrote:It’s a fascinating thread – how should we SPEND the subscribers money? And we’re not – we’re working out ways to save us all money (which is brill!). Putting it in a rainy day slush fund is admirable – but we ain’t spending any!
It is indeed a facinating thread and, for now, there’s no immediate action that we have to take but I think it’s better being discussed and decided upon sooner rather than later. I mean right now there’s only a grand or so there, but what happens when there’s £20K or more there?
I just feel that we have to find direction with it and use it effectively.
Penguin45 wrote:If we are a bit ahead at the moment, I would suggest giving a decent chunk to the tech bods who keep us on-line and maybe buying yourself a decent evening out (You’re going to say no if I say “Stick it in your pocket – you deserve it”).
Not a chance! There’s NO WAY I want any of that money and neither do Dave or Kevin, nor does Trevor or Li so your not getting away with giving it away that easily! 😆
Penguin45 wrote:When you get down to it, the influence we are projecting doesn’t need actual cash – a bit in reserve is always handy – but it’s not really what it’s about.
Correct. However there are quite a few things that we can do, we just need a bit of time and a lot more support to get it doing. As was said earlier, the possibilities are endless really on what we can do.
Penguin45 wrote:If some of our “benefits” come about from this thread, nothing really changes. Our day to day work continues at the open forum level – free to all – and maybe we can encourage others to join us at this level.
I think that’s the way forward for now and, as we add more benefits to being a subscriber through time and we can demonstrate them in a tangible form then it will grow substantially. What we’re all doing for free is fantastic, look at the effects already both within the trade and with the general public.
I know I keep going on about this but, in 18 months, nearly 2 million page views, nearly 2000 members, God knows how many service calls done by those listed, ditto spares sold… not one single complaint! In fact, quite the opposite all we’ve had is praise for what we’re doing so, in my book, we’re doing something right and people like it.
Penguin45 wrote:Personally, I think a fiver a month is too cheap, but how do you justify change when we’re still not coming up with SPENDING options!!
I agree with that, it is not a lot but then when we set it up we were not antisipating the possible uses for such funding, now we are and it may have to change in time depending on what WE want to do with it. But it remains the subscribers money, not that of UKW Ltd and it will always be so, full stop.
I have always said that there are other ways to get funding for what’s being done and I stand by that statement, in time I’ll prove it. UKW Ltd and letting us get on with doing stuff for the troops as well as earning a living can be accomplished in a myriad of other ways, there’s no call to take money from those that can least afford to part with it.
K. (modern day Robin Hood ;))
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.