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The Great EEPROM scam
Not too long after Ariston / Indesit began producing their infamous A… / W…. series which use the microcontroller module / eeprom combination I received a flier from a well known spares supplier which bore the heading “EEPROM information sheet” followed by this statement.
“The EEprom is the ‘Brains’ of the appliance. It is fitted to Ariston and Indesit washing machines and washer dryers and varies from model to model. Most trade engineers are replacing the entire module when 90{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of the time it is the EEprom which is faulty”.
This was followed by a list of over one hundred model / serial number combinations and the required eeprom part number. There are two deceptions in the above statement, (1) The eeprom is not the “Brains of the machine (2) They have no higher failure rate than any other integrated circuit on the board. The “Brains” of the machine is really the Microcontroller IC which is a microprocessor dedicated to the running of a washing machine. The eeprom is a common, electrically programmable / erasable memory array. The particular EEprom used on these boards is the 93C86 which can be organised as a 2K X 8 bit array or alternatively a 1K X 16 bit array.
Now most of you know that these EEproms are purchased for about £15 – £16 from various suppliers to fit Merloni modules – not too bad a price you might conclude for an electronic chip! Well, if you were to buy this IC it might surprise you to know that it would cost you the magnificent sum of around 43 pence + VAT and is readily available from lots of suppliers including some that supply the Merloni EEproms! So what is the difference between the “off the shelf” chip and the same chip from Merloni that will cost you about 32 times as much? Well the difference is the “data” that is “burned” onto the chip.
Because every W/M model is different having different options, functions etc, it is necessary for the Microcontroller to have some means of storing this information. If there was only one model type this information could be incorporated into the processors own program or alternatively we could produce a different controller for each model but this would be a very expensive solution! So the answer is to have a place where we can store the information pertaining to our particular model, and this is the function of the EEprom. This type of memory is non-volatile – that is it will retain the data on the chip even after the power has been removed (200 years if you believe the manufacturer) and so is ideal for this application.
How does this compare with the information sheet that would like you to believe that these things fail frequently, bearing in mind also that these IC’s are GUARANTEED 10,000,000 erase / write cycles and yet Merloni’s have only been programmed once!
You might also be forgiven for thinking that programming data into these chips must be a very expensive process for there to be such a huge price difference. Well, the data is serially programmed onto these devices – that is it is sent as a stream of binary digits – Firstly the operation (read, write etc) 2 bits, secondly the address we are burning the data too (8 or 9 bits depending on 8 or 16 bit array) and finally the data (8 or 16 bits), and is easily accomplished on an ordinary PC and a small application written in e.g. Visual basic. At a typical cycle of 4ms / word and a 1k array it should take around 4 sec to do a full burn.
Ok, so Merloni are ripping people off but these EEproms for each model are necessary, so you can’t blame them for making a bit of cash on them can you?
To answer this question we will have a look at another (used to be) manufacturers module. Hotpoint WMA modules also implement an eeprom (93LC46A) to do the same job, so how come they don’t (didn’t) have multiple variations of eeprom to suit all their modules. Well WMA modules are programmable for various model types ON THE MACHINE.
If you have fitted a replacement WMA module (rare event) you will have received an instruction leaflet (e.g. No 8200714) that lists (in this case 22) different model numbers and instructions for reprogramming the module to suit the model. This is achieved by having a routine in the Microcontroller to read settings off the front panel buttons (supplied by you) to inform it which model it is being installed into. It then passes the relevant data to the eeprom where it is flashed into the memory array.
The question begs to be asked doesn’t it? Why didn’t Merloni do this with their modules?
There is no doubt that these eeprom are a very lucrative source of income so I will leave you to draw your own conclusions on this.
Regards Andy.
Re: The Great EEPROM scam
I too remember this flyer from a (Company in Birmingham i think) I tried to change the eproms on 3 ocasions and failed every time. Given up on Idi**it & Ar*?>ton unless its a no pump fault.
Re: The Great EEPROM scam
Birminham correct! Goosegreen.
Multiply your three eeproms @ £15 a try with everybody else who believed the lie and you have a very profitable flyer shot!
The other effect of this which also profits Merloni is that you have given up on repairing these machines. If someone calls you about repairing one do you tell them that they will be better off calling out Merloni and paying the £90 and getting the free parts? All we do by this action is to again profit Merloni / Indesit Co.
These modules probably cost Merloni /Indesit Co peanuts relative to what they charge, so again its an easy source of revenue. Always assuming that is the problem. Either way they still get their £90.
Not repairing these machines is not really an option (though I have considered it myself) as Hotpoint (and possibly Creda?) are now fitted with these modules. This will account for a fair proportion of potential repairs, can we afford to write them off?
As the fault codes / flash sequence, plus feedback from other engineers are now available on this site it does make it easier to get to grips with these machines and I encourage you and any one else who has given up to persevere with them, otherwise Indesit Co have won.
In my experience the module is not usually the culprit and usually if it is it has been caused by water or a componant failure elsewhere. I did ONCE change an eeprom and it worked! Most times bad connections especially on the thermistor IDC are the culprit. How many times have you had the module out or messed about with the wiring then tried it and it worked OK.
The problem is unless you can pinpoint the actual fault, three days later the machine starts misbehaving again. aaaah!
Anyway despite this I am determined that these machines are not going to beat me, and anything I learn i will post in the forums.
Andy
Superb stuff Andy and very informative too.
You’re spot on with the cost of EEPROM’s as I’ve used them and I think this subject was broached a long time ago, they are (excuse the pun), as cheap as chips.
As more and more appliances go this way the >4500 independent companies and >7-8000 engineers doing an average of say about 8 calls a day each are going to remember that no tech info is available…
The thing is that for every one that we write off for a simple module or EEPROM failure due to a lack of knowledge or silly pricing there’s one more customer that will never buy Hotpoint/Indesit/Ariston ever again for any appliance never mind a washer.
That should be food for thought for some.
K.
Re: The Great EEPROM scam
Is it just me or is everyone finding that its not only the electronics with Ari/sit, As last month i called to 5 machines all under 2 years old where the bearings had failed. This is why i am loath to replace expensive parts only to get a call back when the bearings go. As I dont advertise anymore most of my customers are referal jobs or old customers and I feel that I am being more honest by advising them to scap the machine and buy a new one The only trouble is what machine can you recomend?
Just now I’m recommending MFI stuff, and CDA. Not because it’s any better but at least we have all the info we want, the spares are reasonable and we get the work back if/when they fail.
And the other Merloni is just as bad. 😕
K.
Re: The Great EEPROM scam
I’m at the stage where I’m only recommending Bosch at the lower price mark. At least they get 2 years on the guarantee.
The bearing business is a regular one – my cost includes a new pump motor whether they want it or not. And as for the sealed tank assembly……….
We had Jimbo telling us that they had a 5 year warranty on the drum, like the WMAs, the other night, so that might be a let out for us all! Worth checking out at least.
The real problem is that we have people who only now are coming to end of life with Hotpoint 95s, Hoover Logics, Servis Quartzes, Zanussi Washcrafts. They all think “We did well with that one, lets get another”, little realising………. Brand loyalty is great, but the current state of the market is plain dishonest IMO.
I was asked to leave once many years ago by a lady who didn’t believe that her Electra was a Hotpoint , disguised as a Creda with the Electra badge on the front. “It’s ALWAYS been Creda” was what she said. Yeah, right.
So shortly I’ll be telling them that their Creda is a Hotpoint box, with a sealed, unrepairable drum; shoddy Italian electronics that no-one quite understands, and this is the pride of England. My @rse…
Then we’ll be told that UK manufacture is no longer cost effective, and that’ll be it. Probably still be plenty of Hotpoints about though, ‘cos it takes years for the information to filter through…… I went to a customer on Saturday with a Servis – dead resistors on the board – soldered in some new ones, customer happy, but pointed out it hadn’t lasted as long as her old Quartz. Just couldn’y get her head round the idea that the old Servis company folded in the mid 90s, and this was just a box with the name on.
A few years from now, we might be able to buy Austin Rovers again. At £5/6k starting price, people may be rather better informed. They don’t care at £200, though they make plenty of noise afterwards. Rather like Indy/Ari washers I suppose.
Keep it up UKW, keep pushing the info to the public and maybe they’ll learn in the end.
Chris.
Re: The Great EEPROM scam
Great post Andy, and despite the differring EEproms you should also mention the fact that the modules themselves are differrent (at least 3 differrent ones) and that no one seems to be able to tell which one is the correct one despite having the part numbers off partfinder. Not to mention that some of the so called replaceable eeproms are in fact soldered in yet others have sockets.
Re: The Great EEPROM scam
Yep! the scam goes on.
Phase 1 – Design the boards so that they need lots and lots of eeproms.
Phase 2 – Put a socket on the board so that the suckers will find them easy to change.
Phase 3 – Convince them that they need to have a full set of these eeproms @ £16 apiece so that they will always have one to try in for any particular model to check if it is the eeprom. (ok thats about 6000 independants X 20 (guess) types of eeprom @ £16 = £1,920,000 tops!) – this could be a nice little earner lads!
Phase 4 – OK. The suckers are starting to realise that its not the eeproms so it must be the boards. Right! start releasing the new boards with the eeproms soldered in, hopefully they will just go for a new board.
Phase 5 – Right lads this is it! The biggy! Release the boards with the surface mounted eeproms, so they will HAVE to buy another board. Er, by the way, the replacement boards don’t have eeproms fitted so unless you have one you will have to buy a new eeprom as well! Did’nt we do well?
Of course I might just be a cynical old sod and got this totally wrong!
Re: The Great EEPROM scam
QUOTE FROM KWATT:- The thing is that for every one that we write off for a simple module or EEPROM failure due to a lack of knowledge or silly pricing there’s one more customer that will never buy Hotpoint/Indesit/Ariston ever again for any appliance never mind a washer.
That should be food for thought for some.
————————————————You would thinks so Ken, but if you are a manufacturer that is producing the same product under four (inc Creda) different badges, this effectivly gives you four potential sales to the same customer and they are totally unaware that they are buying from the same manufacturer. So maybe THEY are not too bothered.
IMO there should be legislation to prevent manufactures from using the brand names of other companies that they absorb, because it leads the consumer into being decieved, ie. the product in the box is not what they think it is!
At the very least this information should be made readily available to the consumer in the products specification / advertising.
Andy
Re: The Great EEPROM scam
I am told that all of the information you need on eeproms etc is on the partfinder CD.
Is this incorrect ??
Thanks
Re: The Great EEPROM scam
goosegreen wrote:…I feel that I am being more honest by advising them to scap the machine and buy a new one The only trouble is what machine can you recomend?
Exactly what I used to do – and eventually ended up with no sustainable business left. I wouldn’t do any different though as I trully believed it was the best for the customer. If I had my time again I’d make sure I also repaired quality machines instead of relying on the common rubbish which is now mostly uneconomical to repair.
Re: The Great EEPROM scam
brian wrote:I am told that all of the information you need on eeproms etc is on the partfinder CD.
Is this incorrect ??
Thanks
If it is please tell me where. If it is then it’s well hidden.Re: The Great EEPROM scam
It’s on the “details” section. At the side of the eeprom and PCB part listings is the details icon signifying there is additional information for this part. Clicking the details icon brings it up. It’s just above the parts listing box.
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