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having just been on the samsung sdaq – their eqivelent of nvq i was shocked and pleasantly surprised .
i was a bit apprehensive as i haven’t really been in a classroom for years
the lecturers at Birmingham college i couldn’t fault , they were fully aware that they are plucking engineers of all ages from all sorts of training backgrounds and skill levels .
they broke the simplest of things down -ie different ways of diagnostics , thought process etc they then make you think about the theory behind it ie ohms law , current , voltage .
its all things that we do on a daily basis but never really stop to think what we actually do
not forgetting the safety aspects – i sat their thinking what a load of red tape and pi……h but after a day or so take think about it , i cant really fault it .
i can say it wash like being dragged through the ringer but in a nice way – lots to think about
its just a pity its only open to samsung at the mo , ive heard curry know how are using same college .. im sure they would be open to listening to wta etc ..
Re: trade qualifications ?
This old chestnut.
So, here’s the thing…
Did they teach you anything about actually dealing with customers?
I only ask because, after all, that’s the biggest part of the job.
After that, you need to be Sherlock Holmes and know what you’re looking at to figure out where the problem really lies. To do that, you need to know what the appliances are supposed to do, it’s amazing the number of engineers that don’t know that side well.
After that, you need to be Mr Electrical Safety.
But, that’s just my opinion based round that fact that not too many people are ever at any risk from using an appliance. Even the actual repairers, the biggest risk that they face is being a bit dumb from taking shortcuts like we’ve all done.
Most of us will have the odd scar or the memory of a good belt to prove it. Often both.
If Carlesberg did appliance exams, I doubt they’d have a Samsung in them. 😉
K.
Re: trade qualifications ?
funkyboogy wrote:having just been on the samsung sdaq – their eqivelent of nvq i was shocked and pleasantly surprised .
Very interesting Ally. Can I ask, was this a days training or several days?
Samsung obviously are keen to train up their agents with this type of stuff, refresher course or whatever it was. And I think that the WTA might well be interested in this type of training from Samsung. After all P&G saw fit to travel the country visiting us all with their training. Birmingham has been the meeting point chosen by UKW as best suited for all to come along to.
Even Ken’s ‘old chestnuts’ might well show an interest in learning a bit more. We know how to deal with customers and learn new tricks on that score daily. But applying a bit of technical knowhow to diagnostics is hard to fathom lest someone shows you how. And this might well be the way forward.
Do tell us more Ally. 😀
Re: trade qualifications ?
hi martin , ken the training is ongoing with various elements to it i done the microwave course in dec 12 – 2 days and follow up assessment in customers house which i haven’t had yet but i think they will now do a double with the course this week on laundry .
switched on the assessor said to me i will be accessing 1 of 2 things .. you will be either fixing the appliance or fixing the customer – confirmation that they are switched on to what ken was saying re customer care, and yes they do dive into customer care expectations etc.
the sdaq ( nvq ) is new but the guys who are teaching it have been around the block a few times .
samsung have flung a lot of money at this – sponsored training rooms etc , they also have a training center somewhere else that they have spent millions on i hear.
they have budget for 40 engineers to go through this year – the problem is getting time off to attend .
take my hat of to what they are doing , there’s not many manufacturers doing this if at all ..
if i was a trade body i would be making inroads and speaking to the college .
Re: trade qualifications ?
Perhaps you could tell us the name of the college in Birmingham? Just that I was aware of one but it appears to be not offering such courses as like you said sponsored training course which is where colleges make their money from.
City college in Bordesley Green (5 mins drive from Connect) tend to offer refrigeration courses but only to large companies like BG, Samsung, Toshiba and the likes.
Re: trade qualifications ?
james watt campus , i dont think they offer individual courses ??
but a good place to start asking questions about one .
Re: trade qualifications ?
I have done the same course Ally ,Samsung have paid for this round of courses whereas the one I did was Government funded.
The reason that the training suite is Samsung based is because Samsung only want to train their own ASC’s and NO ONE else.
I enquired about funding for independents and was advised although it isn’t impossible ,making it possible may be a bit more involved, in fact the guys from BMET came to the last but one conference ,so there is dialogue happening.
Whilst it’s nice to have the qualification ,Samsung are the only manufacturer that have done it so far.
At present no other manufacturer I work for have stipulated any qualification required to service their products.
Due to no more government skills funding ,the cost for the course itself is a huge amount of money, without taking in to consideration the loss of earnings and the cost of fuel and accommodation etc ,so until someone stipulates otherwise its not financially viable for me to pursue.Re: trade qualifications ?
i had 3 days of 1 for travel 2 for course so yes £1500 plus loss , there is lots of agents that cant afford that – i certainly cant myself , so their is a sting in the tail if you want to educate yourself or any employees for that matter , i think there is some funding from the government but nothing to cover the actual loss,s incurred ..
apart from that i did enjoy it – i suppose its like your health – you cant put a price on it.Re: trade qualifications ?
I’m all for training and qualifications, I’d even go so far as a person failing should not legally be allowed near an appliance until he/she has shown and has proof of their competence.
Recently worked with some Eng from a well known group, one took 3 visits to replace a fridge fan motor that he had on 1st visit, but damaged the fan and on return to fit fan damaged casing, he has 20 yrs plus experience.
Another took 4 visits for a D/W no Neutral, 5th attempt spotted the element, he has 10 yrs plus experience.
Another replaced a Hoover W/M pump on a intermittent no drain, again element dropping below insulation resulting in loss of neutral to pump, again 20 yrs plus experience.
Several of there guys have no training or experience, they where truck drivers recruited to do appliance work.
This is a small example of a big issue, i could write pages of incompetence.
The group currently has major recall figures.
Most of there eng’s have experience but no formal qualification/training within the industry and frankly have very little understanding of the science behind there work. This allows for a culture of parts ordering and hoping for the best, it didn’t help Comet, it won’t help this group, same issues throughout our industry.
Re: trade qualifications ?
So then, by that logic, there shouldn’t be a bad electrician in the land.
Or a bad estate agent.
A bad doctor.
Or a poor lawyer.
Or a poor car mechanic.
I could go on and on and it would be the same story across a myriad of qualified and in some cases regulated industries.
The bottom line is, qualifications do not equate to better quality service at all IMO, what they do is raise the cost of entry to a sector and increase the cost of maintaining the sector thereby pushing prices up. Note, not profits, prices.
Hence the old chestnut quip as I knew that this would go this way at some stage.
You will, as demonstrated widely i most industries, get good people and you’ll get not so good people. Some will care and do the job right, others will not. Pretty much that’s it.
You can encourage people to learn more and I do strongly advocate that but forcing the issue will often backfire with the law of unintended consequence creeping in behind it.
Just look at both gas and F-Gas in this industry.
Even people that were perfectly competent to work on both simply drop out of it because it’s too costly to maintain given the rewards available for maintaining the certification.
Put that as a barrier to entry, which Gas Safe is, and you end up with a very small pool that can do it, they can charge more and make demands to get what they need. Sounds great as you can make more but that doesn’t pan out in reality because the cost of maintaing the registration, the insurances and the additional time along with the relatively low volumes makes it okay to have and you can get more other work off the back of it but, not worth the cost if you can’t.
So if you ask me, any legislation is such a dumb idea it beggers belief in all honesty.
It would be like the turkeys decided they want four Christmas’s a year.
Many years ago it might have been an idea but these days, not so much. There’s more than enough legislation and regulation as things stand now.
K.
Re: trade qualifications ?
funkyboogy wrote:james watt campus , i dont think they offer individual courses ??
but a good place to start asking questions about one .
Interesting! Over 5 years ago South Birmingham college offered domestic appliance course but it was withdrawn. Don’t think colleges are keen on training domestic appliance repairs. Like Ken said experiences trumps over qualifications and as long they maintain safe working practices.
Govt are not interested in independents as they don’t generate much tax revenue or take off those lazy workshy people off benefits. Only large companies can do that as they get tax breaks as long the govt get to gain in terms of reduced benefits, increases PAYE/NI contributions.
Re: trade qualifications ?
twicknix wrote:Govt are not interested in independents as they don’t generate much tax revenue or take off those lazy workshy people off benefits. Only large companies can do that as they get tax breaks as long the govt get to gain in terms of reduced benefits, increases PAYE/NI contributions.
Partly. But, not really.
It’s an incentive thing IMO.
For government where’s the incentive to intervene?
There’s no safety issue to speak of. There’s no financial gain to be had, as you point out for government at least. There’s no public pressure or outcry. There’s little if any call for regulation from the trade either here, Europe wide or globally.
So, why bother with the time and expense?
Therefore, any calls for regulation are likely coming from a small protectionist band within the industry in question.
Why bother to support what would be tantamount to the creation if a micro-monopoly within a sector?
Turns out, when you think about it, that it could be a negative publicity thing for government, not a positive. If that proves to be a correct way of viewing things then there’s actually a disincentive for any form of intervention.
Like most things, how you see things depends on what way the light is cast.
K.
Re: trade qualifications ?
from a personal point of view i feel its good to get training and gain insight on how the outside world see our bubble , we can get wrapped up in what we do so it is interesting to see how a institution like a college view the whitegoods industry.
yes some of it shouldn’t apply to what we do but its square pegs round holes.
i would say that more training on customer care / perception would be more of a advantage. as engineers we know how to repair appliance – repairing customers is a lot harder and more time consuming..
Re: trade qualifications ?
You need to open up and accept that whilst legislation, training etc costs money to companies it also costs clients as well, they expect an experienced, qualified person, not a numpty.
Without clients you have no business, therefore there opinion of the product or business is reflected by the person representing it. Its become more important in the current climate. When HR look at recruitment, they assess a candidate by experience within the industry and qualifications. So recruiting a guy with 20 yrs experience, little or no school qualifications but did a night school in basic electrical priniciples for 3 months and a 4 wk course at Hotpoint in 1993 or a guy with 5 GCSE’s above grade C and a 1or 2 yr City & Guilds domestic appliance certificate and 1-2 yr experince within the industry. For me its a no brainer. Or as i’ve learn’t this month van delivery drivers with no electrical knowledge/qualifications now doing appliance repairs. I know who i’d prefer repairing my fridge.
In my experience in this industry there are a lot of people with a lot of excuses and a lot of experience, but little to no basic understanding of the product there repairing or the business there running..
Today called to sort out Daewoo american refrigerator, client refused to sign docs as fixed because of multipule calls on other products by the same company, which she described as pathetic service and shes fed up of taking so much time off work. That im sure resenates with many managers around the country, who whilst scratch there heads in dismay refuse to accept other countries have solved a very basic issue.Re: trade qualifications ?
Some of what you say I don’t disagree with at all Lee, such as a basic understanding of how the products work and a bit of diagnostics skill.
I remain deeply unconvinced however that compulsory training driven by legislation would actually achieve that and I can find no data from any industry even remotely similar that demonstrates that is what would happen.
K.
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