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Re: Water heater faliure
Apologies in advance for the brutal honesty…
From the use you describe you need a full commercial for that sort of use and I do mean a FULL commercial.
Anything else you’ll trash in short order.
A Miele or and ISE will last a lot longer than pretty much anything else but, ultimately, with the continual hot washes you will burn through heaters as you’ve seen and quite possibly encounter other problems.
A “normal” domestic is built around the average household needs, which runs to around 250-270 washes per year on average with a variety of programs being used. They are not intended for the use that you’re subjecting your machine to at all.
For many, if the commercial use is detected (which it often can be) on a domestic appliance your warranty may well be invalidated as well.
Think on it this way, it’s like buying a 1.2l Fiesta and trying to tow a 21ft caravan for 80{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of its life. It won’t end well. Bear in mind also that manufacturers, retailers and repairers aren’t entirely stupid.
But then, most people would think about that and apply a little common sense when it comes to a car among other things. They tend not to until it’s too late when it comes to things like appliances. 😉
And, here’s another clue as to how far out you are on the use, a “normal” domestic machine is circa £300 for argument’s sake, a commercial that will do what you need is upwards of £2500-3500. It isn’t rocket science to work out that they’re not exactly the same.
Or, you simply accept, as many commercial clients do, that you will burn through the machines in short order and accept that rather than forking out the large capital investment up front for what you actually need and enduring the ongoing maintenance costs, that you just swallow the same costs in bite sized chunks as you burn them out.
Knowing that you will need maintenance and, accepting that cost, is half the battle though as then it becomes a calculation on how much that will run you over the life.
The salient point being that, in commercial and high use situations that you will pay for the use one way or another. It’s really only a question of how much cost and hassle you want attached to that as well as how to mitigate the cost as best you can.
Horses for courses really, you need the proper tools for the job at hand and, it’ll only get worse as the quality is degraded through time to retain the in-store price points. A £300 Bosch today isn’t the same as a £300 Bosch from ten years ago, I can assure you of that. Therefore, people with use such as yours will find machines out there that will last six months and be completely trashed beyond economical repair.
K.
Re: Water heater faliure
Hi Kwatt
No need at all to apologize for the honesty. There is nothing in what you’ve said that I disagree with.
You hit the nail right on the head though, that it comes down to facts & figures and what can be absorbed as a business cost. I am not saying it is right, but given the price-point and almost immediate availability of products such as washing machines, it’s not hard to see why the option of buying something relativity cheap, wearing it out, then dropping into Currys to buy another -to take home there & then- is rather attractive.
I do of course ‘get’ the whole situation from the POV of a repair person who can remember good quality appliances which were made to be repaired etc. and that it is wasteful to replace appliances to the extent that we are doing, but for me, the bit that cripples me is the ‘down time’ of something like a washing machine being out of action as without it, I am losing money. I’m self-employed, so time spent off work waiting for repairs is lost money. You guys know how it is. Doing my accounts for last year, I see I spent over £180 on footwear, and that was just for me. Every shoe was worn until it split through…sometimes it really does come down to looking at the cost of X against the expense of Y. 😐
Speaking of the older Bosch machines, when I was a demonstrator back in the 1990’s, I bought a Bosch WFF2001 when they became discontinued. This was April 1999 and the Co-Op had them on a bulk end-of-line special. That machine was built like the proverbial brick outhouse…I only got rid of it (to my partners mother) as we moved house about 18 months later and I couldn’t access the door from where it was situated at the new house (the WFF models had the door hinged on the right for some reason). Anyway, said machine was still working as of two months ago, until ‘mum’ decided to replace it. I have no idea what was wrong with it either (she lives 200 miles away from me), she just said “it stopped” one day and she bought a new one. 😕
Re: Water heater faliure
busybr wrote: it’s not hard to see why the option of buying something relativity cheap, wearing it out, then dropping into Currys to buy another -to take home there & then- is rather attractive.
Given your experience with previous machines AND your take on your business needs to have a working machine at all times it isn’t hard to realise your logical thinking here. A view echoed by many thousands throughout the country who have similar past experiences and their current needs for a quick, cheap resolve. I wish you well in your eventual choice of what to buy and hope it serves you well. Perhaps it’s best you don’t reveal to us that choice as you can guarantee it will force certain ‘issues’ and prejudices amongst the baying crowd…! 😉 😀
Re: Water heater faliure
Lets not forget that the £300 bosch from 10 years ago would be equivalent to the £500 bosch of today in real terms, that is often forgotten, then consider the current cheap £200 machines value 10 years ago! (£50 ?)
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http://www.kitchenkitsw.comRe: Water heater faliure
If it was me needing this…
Space allowing I’d get two decent quality machines and run both.
Gives you the extra capacity, spreads the load and when one does eventually fail at least you’re not completely dead in the water.
And, it’s likely cheaper than buying a full on commercial.
The only thing to watch is mop heads, they have a nasty habit of smashing up drum paddles.
K.
Re: Water heater faliure
DrDill wrote:Lets not forget that the £300 bosch from 10 years ago would be equivalent to the £500 bosch of today in real terms, that is often forgotten,
Oh please Doc that is simply not true. The £300 Bosch 10 yrs back had a S/steel inner and outer with a huge cast iron spigot. If made today it would likely cost in excess of £500 (that bit is true enough) but today’s £500 Bosch doesn’t hold a candle to it’s latter day counterpart. The plastic drum and thin as paper s/steel drum are as sound and as durable as any cheapo make and model half the price. It’s ‘servicibility factor’ in direct comparison is risible, it’s reliability likewise. You speak the speak of a true salesman rather than an engineer. If you were flogging a Bosch 10 yrs back I would be supportive of your stance but based on what I know of the brand these days that, as I said in my opening statement, is simply not true!
Re: Water heater faliure
Sorry martin i dissagree and most engineers would, i know that wont sit with you but it is my opinion and i am an engineer.
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http://www.kitchenkitsw.comRe: Water heater faliure
Also i dont recall bosch having a 10 year warranty on their motors 10 years ago.
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http://www.kitchenkitsw.comRe: Water heater faliure
Hi Kwatt
Years ago I did have two washers in use; a regular front loader and a Hoover slimline toploader. The latter was used for tipping bags of cleaning cloths & mop-heads straight in. I loved it. But then we moved to a much smaller property. If I could squeeze another machine in (and I have yet to rule it out) I would. 😕
Re: Water heater faliure
Hi guys
Ok, so, with all the comments made in reply to my original posting, I’ve been trawling the internet looking at prices of commercial washing machines. Now, having already been chastised for not considering the environmental effects of using & wearing out cheap washing machines, I dovery much want to carry on with a minimum 8kg wash load (as I can easily fill the drum with that amount of laundry every time) and I do also want a 1600rpm spin minimum, the logic behind this being that -overall- washing as much as possible in one load and spinning it as fast as possible has got to be better for the environment in terms of overall water consumption and electricity for tumble-drying.
However, the cost of a commercial machine which will do this is :eeek: :eeek: :eeek:
Literally, I could buy half a dozen domestic machines at £300 each for the same price as one commercial model. Though it grieves me to say it, I’d sooner go for the domestic models, wear them out, and replace them. There’s nothing about my current Bosch which is saying it was worth spending well over the £500 that I did…were I to replace it, I can get a 9KG 1600rpm Hotpoint Ultima for £350…or an 11kg 1600pm Hotpoint Aqualitis for a little over £500.
Now that Hotpoint is owned & built by Merloni (I have never liked Hotpoint washers when they were Hotpoint, and Merloni was never a brand which thrilled me either) I have to ask how the brand fairs, overall. And this Aqualtis jobby…it’s like nothing I’ve really seen before. Any verdicts?
Re: Water heater faliure
I would get 2 ISE machines, i think you get a 5 year comercial warranty and after that they are cost effective to repair
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http://www.kitchenkitsw.comRe: Water heater faliure
busybr wrote:Any verdicts?
Yep! You’ve trawled the Internet, meanwhile I’ve trawled your posts on the subject.
Conclusion : –
Buy and ISE W228eco it offers a wealth of features and comes way way above the spec you require. It’s an 8kg load rating, so only a couple of lbs down on your desire for 9kg, but boy do they wash good or what? AND, AND spin at 1800rpm….!! Build like a brick outhouse and carries a commercial guarantee of 3 yrs..!
Re: Water heater faliure
Hi Guys
Thanks for that…I’ve been reading a lot about the ISE. Where can I find a price? (Which? had it down at over £100O).
I have to say that even the idea of an ISE and all the benefits it is said to bring is still not yet ‘balanced’ in my own mind by the other end of the scale of buying cheap & wearing it out.
Thanks again, I am mulling over all comments.
Re: Water heater faliure
busybr wrote:Thanks again, I am mulling over all comments.
Oh blimey, fair enough but remember what I said about “the baying crowd” now and don’t tell us you bought cheap lest they take issue. Most of ‘us guys’ that read this stuff are appliance engineers and know what a proper washing looks like and what it retails at. 😉
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