What is this dirt and why does it keep reapearing

[Chlorinated]

I have a zanussi zwg1120 and noticed that every time I washed in it the clothes came out smelly. Initially I thought it was mold and the black stuff used to form underneath the rubber however I services the machine maybe 30 times with different products(bleach, chemical etc) yet the black stuff kept retruning.

Now recently it seemed to me that the grey/black stuff was actually caused by washing powder and so I stopped using powdered detergent. The build seems to have gone somewhat. only noticing very small amounts now.

1. The thing is I am doing 60c long cycles so I don’t understand why powder won’t break down if that is the root of this problem? Using the same powder on a boil wash does’t leave any dirt behind. Can anyone explain if it sounds like the powder isn’t breaking down and is causing this dirt/smell to form?

2. I also notice that whenever I put something into the machine e.g. perfumed detergent, bleach etc the machine smells of that for many days to come. It’s almost as though the product hasn’t gone from the machine because every time I wash my clothes with a non scented detergent, the perfume from the last detergent used seems to transfer onto it, even though many days have passed and the machine doesn’t smell of perfume.

So basically I have a problem with powder which might have a relation to dark dirt build up underneath the seal making my clothes smell.
And I also have my clothes smelling strongly of detergent or liquid used in a previous cycle on clothes which have been washed in a cycle without perfumed detergent. This is even though many days have passed and the perfume should have gone. It seems as though the perfume/liquid stays there and gets mixed in other washes even though from the drum I see no water build up i.e. pump seems to be working.

Can anybody solve this riddle for me? Thanks.

[Martin]

Re: What is this dirt and why does it keep reapearing

It is well known that these Chinese made Zanussi machines are notoriously bad for severe bacteria build-up. The low water levels, coupled with poor drain pump/filter that’s prone to blockages, low temperature wash cycles and detergent overfilling all combine to get to the state your machine is now in.

Very hard to resolve when it gets into that state. The drum would need to be fully removed and jet washed for starters AND door gasket replaced. Quite a bother in all honesty. 🙁

[jimuew]

Re: What is this dirt and why does it keep reapearing

There are certain engines in soap powder that are there to breakdown the dirt in clothes. These engines are known to react with the rubber on door seals that results in the black marks on this seal. Also, at the end of a wash cycle, a small amount of water is purposely left in the sump, this is to prevent smells from the outlet drain getting into the washing machine via the drain hose.

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[jimuew]

Re: What is this dirt and why does it keep reapearing

Enzines lol

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[Martin]

Re: What is this dirt and why does it keep reapearing

Enzymes even. 😉

[iadom]

Re: What is this dirt and why does it keep reapearing

jimuew wrote:There are certain engines in soap powder that are there to breakdown the dirt in clothes. These engines are known to react with the rubber on door seals that results in the black marks on this seal. Also, at the end of a wash cycle, a small amount of water is purposely left in the sump, this is to prevent smells from the outlet drain getting into the washing machine via the drain hose.

Whilst there are enzymes in powders everything else in this post is complete nonsense. :rolls:

[kwatt]

Re: What is this dirt and why does it keep reapearing

Sorry to say, it is indeed incorrect on a number of fronts.

Enzymes are not present in all detergents and, the quality and quantity of them used varies as well as all else in a detergent, most of which have at least 100-200 ingredients.

Enzymes do not leave black marks at all, quite the reverse is true and they are specifically designed to break down bacteriological staining, not create it. Hence the term, Bio or Biological Detergent.

The black marks are caused by unwanted bacteriological build up in the machine usually due to poor cleaning, incorrect wash cycles, incorrect detergent usage and a number of other factors but, nothing at all to do with enzymes.

Water is left in the sump because, unless someone’s managed to invent some form of anti-gravity device to defy the laws of physics and, I’ve missed it, it is not physically possible to clear all the water from the sump. If you think about that a little more, you’ll also come to understand why that this has to be the case and that there is no way around it.

To address the original issue, start with this lot….

http://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/help/clea … arks-.html

http://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/help/clea … -wash.html

http://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/help/fix- … hines.html

They should help you, if not solve the problem, at least get it under control.

K.

[Chlorinated]

Re: What is this dirt and why does it keep reapearing

The black marks are caused by unwanted bacteriological build up in the machine usually due to poor cleaning, incorrect wash cycles, incorrect detergent usage and a number of other factors

Ok so I understand it is a bacterial problem and not a fungal(mold) problem. The problem is that I have done relentless service washes with products and even put 4 litres of bleach at one time however these gray dirt kept returning within 2 washes. Therefore I guess servicing the machine further won’t help?
Also I explained that I noticed if I use soap nuts the grey dirt stopped appearing wherease when I use powder at 40c they return. Doesn’t this mean anything?

Water is left in the sump because, unless someone’s managed to invent some form of anti-gravity device to defy the laws of physics and, I’ve missed it, it is not physically possible to clear all the water from the sump. If you think about that a little more, you’ll also come to understand why that this has to be the case and that there is no way around it.

Even if it leaves some water, surely my clothes should not be smelling of perfume if perfumed detrgent wasn’t used and so many days after a perfumed detergent was used. Could it be that something stays in the machine even though the water seems to have drained? How do you explain washed clothes coming out of the washer with a strong perfume smell even though I was using a perfume free detergent? And also that the last time I used a perfume detergent was several days ago.

Anyway my machine is less then 2 years old and it looks good yet I have these problems. Considering all the things I have tried thus far, do you think it is better to get a new machine?

Thanks

[kwatt]

Re: What is this dirt and why does it keep reapearing

Chlorinated wrote:Ok so I understand it is a bacterial problem and not a fungal(mold) problem. The problem is that I have done relentless service washes with products and even put 4 litres of bleach at one time however these gray dirt kept returning within 2 washes. Therefore I guess servicing the machine further won’t help?

Once you get bacteria forming you will never get rid of it completely, even after bleaching you will still have some that remains and, after a while it will come back. Which is why I say the best that you can do is manage it.

If the black mould keeps on coming back on the door seal then you can change the seal and, with good practice afterwards it should be okay but, it can’t be guaranteed.

Chlorinated wrote:Also I explained that I noticed if I use soap nuts the grey dirt stopped appearing wherease when I use powder at 40c they return. Doesn’t this mean anything?

Soap nuts are about as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

In short they do absolutely nothing and do not work in a modern automatic washing machine. They do not, cannot and will not get your clothes clean and can cause issues with your washing machine.

If you have been using them extensively then that will be what’s caused the problem as there is no bleaching action and very little if any cleaning when they are used. What you’re probably getting after using powder is a layer of the scum from inside the machine being lifted off and redeposited and it would’t surprise me at all if the outer tank was completely caked in bacteria and dirt left there.

What that means is that, in effect, you are washing in a soup of previous dirt and bacteria that has been left behind every time.

That is usually compounded as, people who use soap nuts and eco balls etc are usually either trying to save money or, being “green” and also use a lot of low temperature washes, equal to or less than an indicated 40C. This only makes the problem still worse as you have nothing to actually clean either the laundry or the machine.

Then, once the problem becomes severe enough to be noticed by the owner, it’s often too late to do much about it and the saving cash or being green just cost money, a new machine and often a bunch of new clothes to boot. Hardly eco or wallet friendly.

Sorry to be so direct but, it is what it is and I see tons of completely incorrect information about this kind of stuff online all the time.

Chlorinated wrote:Even if it leaves some water, surely my clothes should not be smelling of perfume if perfumed detrgent wasn’t used and so many days after a perfumed detergent was used. Could it be that something stays in the machine even though the water seems to have drained? How do you explain washed clothes coming out of the washer with a strong perfume smell even though I was using a perfume free detergent? And also that the last time I used a perfume detergent was several days ago.

The only smell that can be produced from a washing machine (or any other appliance) is really from what you put in it.

But without being able to inspect that there’s really no way to be sure and, given the other issues not of the greatest importance until they are resolved.

K.

[Martin]

Re: What is this dirt and why does it keep reapearing

Chlorinated wrote:Considering all the things I have tried thus far, do you think it is better to get a new machine?

That’s the only solution left for you to be sure of curing the problem. As I mentioned in my earlier post that machine is prone to poor wash problems. But since my last comment you’ve confessed to even resorting to, sin of all sins, soap nuts….wow!!!

I just wonder what state your machine is in after all manner of detergents, liquids, bleach and soap nuts have slopped their way around that little sealed tub then squeezing through a tiny drain filter before finally exiting into (my most likely guess) a shared waste outlet with the kitchen sink?

Yes a new machine is the cure but I fear you need to take on all the advice my colleague has given (including the links) so that you can apply that extra knowledge in ensuring it won’t happen again.

All the best! 😀

[Chlorinated]

Re: What is this dirt and why does it keep reapearing

Guys, thank you for these replies and it looks like I’ll have to change the machine:(. May I ask:

1) The reason I am using soap nuts, ecover and others is because I am severely sensitive to most detergents including non bio persil and others, not for being eco friendly or money saving reasons. Can you recommend a detergent to use that will be ok on the machine considering my sensitivities?

2) Can you recommend a brand(s) of washing machine that will be safe to use i.e. not have these problems so much?

3)Is ecover ok(I know the article says no) however unlike soap nuts and another eco brand I used(both of which do not contain bleach), ecover does contain bleach so I’m hoping that was not the cause of the problem?

Thanks

[kwatt]

Re: What is this dirt and why does it keep reapearing

Ecover in tests performed worse than even many supermarket own brands.

As for skin irritation… it’s not your washing machine or the detergent that’s the problem I expect…

http://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/help/stai … ation.html

Laundry detergent or washing machines being the cause of this is largely a myth perpetrated by the media and seemingly a few people in the medical profession who are not experts in the field. This was debunked some years ago as being a myth by a report in the British Journal of Dermatology and also, if I recall correctly, by the British Association of Dermatologists.

In other words, look elsewhere for the cause. 😉

But if your clothes are getting washed in a sea of dirt and bacteria I guess that could set off skin problems and, if you use a proper detergent it will start to loosen that from the inside of the tank which could exacerbate the problem.

If you use a pukka detergent then it will do what it should and start to clean the inside of the machine given that it is supposed to attack dirt. This will make the detergent more ineffective as it tries to cope with not only the dirt in the laundry but also that in the machine but we often see it stripping off some but not all of the accumulated grime. That can be redeposited on your laundry.

Weak detergents (and many of the old wives tales stuff) won’t do that so you won’t get that issue. Soap nuts, Ecoballs and any number of poor quality detergents will not strip the dirt or grime away so, you don’t have the problem. That is, until there’s a change in what you put in the machine.

However, I am no dermatologist so I can’t say for sure, you’d have to get tests to get to the root cause.

K.

[Chlorinated]

Re: What is this dirt and why does it keep reapearing

Kwatt, I have to disagree with you on people not being irritated by perfumed detergents. In my case, I am sensitive to perfume on people sitting next to me, detergent smells coming from washing machines, motor fuel and a host of other fumes etc. I have a specific condition so perfumed and chemical detergents are problematic for me.

I will take preventative measures however can you recommend which brands of washing machine I can use that, unlike the zanussi, are not prone to these problems.

[iadom]

Re: What is this dirt and why does it keep reapearing

One with a stainless steel outer tub, but it will cost. 😉

[kwatt]

Re: What is this dirt and why does it keep reapearing

If your condition is that chronic then yes, a stainless steel outer tank is the only viable option without have to go to extremely specialist stuff. But again, I would advise that anyone affected to that degree sought individual professional advice from a dermatologist.

You will be lucky to see much change out of £1000 for a machine that will have one of those these days.

It is far, far superior in many ways especially so on the cleanliness front but constant low temperature washing etc will cause you problems even on that.

If you use skin creams that can also be an issue for door seals, hoses and the likes as some of the chemicals in them will react adversely with those components.

Basically there is no easy and most certainly no cheap way for you to do what you need.

K.

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