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Re: What would you recommend?
I agree that something simply doesn’t add up. Maybe they don’t want to stock spares? I can’t believe they are stupid enough to want people to buy a new washing machine because of the point I raised previously, there’s no guarantee (and in fact logic says it’s pretty unlikely) that the customer will buy another of “their” washing machine, so all they do is drive people to buy a competitor’s product.
Maybe they don’t want to stock spares for every model they make for 10 years (as per the agreement or law) so they simply price them in such a way that they can confidently stock very low levels? Maybe the fact that they don’t stick with the same parts for long enough places an enormous financial burden on stocking all the thousands of spares for the plethora of different parts that they used for one range only and then moved on?
Maybe it’s partially because they want to sell their own maintenance contracts too?
Re: What would you recommend?
No-one seems to mention Miele anywhere in these forum threads? I know nothing about Miele either but suspect their products (being in fact, top priced) are therefore possibly top quality, long lasting and ultimately good value for money????
Haven’t seen any generally bad complaints about Miele products either. I am sure that there still is a market for ‘Rolls Royce’ type goods after all??
If all of the above is true, why don’t we all sing their praises, sell and fix their products and SOD THE REST?
Their must be a snag in my theory I suspect, otherwise why would we be all ranting about the likes of Hoover & Hotpoint all the time?
Martin
Re: What would you recommend?
I do Martin 🙂 My first post on this thread said, “I always say that Miele are the best you can buy in the UK, real class..”
You are right, we should promote them as they are exactly the type of washing machine we should all respect. However, Miele’s problem is that they give us the cold shoulder and therefore alienate most white goods repairers. They seem to deliberately price their spare parts (trade prices) so that we can’t make any profit on them. They appear to give so little discount to the wholesalers that supply us, that there’s no money in it for them so they don’t stock them or just carry a token amount. This has always struck me as a deliberate ploy to restrict trade and they get away with it. However, the price they pay is that few of us sell or recommend them because there’s no money on future repairs. Maybe they are content with the status quo. They aren’t the only German manufacturers to do this either as we all know.
Re: What would you recommend?
OK Andy,point taken but …….
What about those amongst us that retail Miele products I wonder? Do they too suffer when it comes to servicing? I suspect not, because it is all passed on to their customers anyway, with all having a share in the profits from keeping hold of them, it makes for good business tactics. In any town or city their is always a dealer specialising in ‘Top Brand’ products looking down on the likes of us!
Once a Miele customer always a Miele customer I reckon….those guys at Abingdon are laughing at this!
Martin
Re: What would you recommend?
I think people generally try to promote and sell the machines they think they can make money out of on future repairs. To many, it’s a conflict of interests to sell stuff that’s too good.
Me, I advise people if they want the best to get a Miele, but be prepared to pay higher (but fewer) repair charges. They should last over 20 years easily. When I was a Hoover sales dealer, it was great because the logics and ecologics at that time were excellent machines for the money and seemed to have just the right balance of potential future repairs and people happily bought another Hoover when it was finished with. The old ones often got reconditioned.
The most influential salesmen possible are repairmen. Even if they don’t sell themselves, they always have a great influence on what machines people go for in the multiples. Maybe they are greatly underestimated by manufacturers. If an engineer says don’t buy a Hoptoint, people listen. If he says buy a Miele, people listen. As far as a layman is concerned, you cannot get a better recommendation that from someone who repairs them.
Maybe if Miele made parts and technical information more available to engineers, and they could make profit repairing them, and reconditioning them, they would recommend and sell them. Who knows, Miele could even take market share in the end because they are so good.
However, I suspect they want to retain their exclusive image.
Re: What would you recommend?
There is a conflict of interest between selling new appliances while also (mainly) being a service company as we could be in a position to profit by needlessly writing off a appliance in order to gain a sale. However, nowdays we would probably make more money from repairing an appliance than selling one, given the extra visit and possibility of having to send 2 engineers to deliver the things.
Over the years we have pulled out of retail and then gone back into it again, why? because our customers kept telling us they wanted to buy from us, as we know about machines and have the respect in the area to be trusted and they know we will (hopefully) still be there when it brakes down to go and fix it and possibly, but rarely theses days, also carry out any under warranty service.
We have also done well on selling unheard of brands for the same reason, trust. Philco, Caravelle (!!?? and another similar one that started with a C that I cannot remember) Bauknecht, Brandt, Asko, Gorenje have all been sold to customers who claim they have never heard of them. Even Candy, we were shipping shed loads of P807’s well before they were ever on a Liverpool football shirt on account that they had a stainless steel tub. (I remember cutting a perspex lid for one in our shop to show this off and a customer complained when we delivered one as it didnt have the clear top on it!)
Andy, you say about the old hoover being a good machine but did you think that at the time? No way, looking back at those days the Hoover was junk compared to the Zanussi sl and washcrafts, Philco Bendix and AEG’s Even Indesit L5’s and 6’s. The Hoover and Hotpoint failure rate was what most of us built their business on. In Hindsite, compared to today’s machines they were well made and durable and usually lasted 10 -15 years but reliable? No way.Re: What would you recommend?
eastlmark wrote: Even Candy, we were shipping shed loads of P807’s well before they were ever on a Liverpool football shirt on account that they had a stainless steel tub.
Aaah now theres a machine that brings back memories ,And we also used to sell tons solely because of the tub system.
If I remember rightly we could almost guarantee a sale if we went to a Bdx/Philco with a vitreous tub rusted through on the suspension bracket (remember that fault) .
I can even remember the sales pitch
Eng “well madam what you really need is a machine with a stainless tub ,but with no load on the tub itself .
Cust “is there such a thing”
Eng “well…….”
Mind you we could sell a candy then knowing it would be reliable,On friday I went to a Candy Turbo we sold 15 years ago!,apparently we changed the timer under warranty and thats been it ,It now only needs a pump (thanks for the part number Dave )
I think at one stage we were the only people in the area selling Candy
we bought them through Candy at Bromborough and then through Anton domestic appliances (long gone I think ) .Fond memories
LawrenceRe: What would you recommend?
Anton domestic appliances (long gone I think ) .
Infact still going from the same place but now known as Portway.
Re: What would you recommend?
JoeStrummer wrote:
Anton domestic appliances (long gone I think ) .
Infact still going from the same place but now known as Portway.
Well,Well
Re: What would you recommend?
eastlmark wrote:
Andy, you say about the old hoover being a good machine but did you think that at the time? No way, looking back at those days the Hoover was junk compared to the Zanussi sl and washcrafts, Philco Bendix and AEG’s Even Indesit L5’s and 6’s. The Hoover and Hotpoint failure rate was what most of us built their business on. In Hindsite, compared to today’s machines they were well made and durable and usually lasted 10 -15 years but reliable? No way.In all honesty, I did. My perspective may have been somewhat blinkered because in the late 80’s, I had spent 15 years dealing soley in Hoover. I was aware of the higher quality AEG etc, but they were a fair bit more expensive and hardly anyone repaired them. Maybe Sheffield (with its highest percentage of council houses in the country) is slightly different to most other parts of the UK. It was the time of the miners strikes too and the Steelworks shutting down. The whole area was devastated and skint. The type of customer I’d been used to dealing with all had the mainstream washing machines and few places even seemed to sell the quality ones. I always believed that they were the best value for money bearing in mind the purchase price and the fact they were the cheapest spares in the business (as far as I could tell) and everyone and their dog repaired them which meant prices were kept very competitive.
I remember signing up to be an Asko dealer and bought 4 Asko washing machines. We were astounded at the quality of them compared to the Hoover’s we’d always dealt with. They were in our shop 9 months and customers were equally impressed with their quality – especially when I demonstrated by dropping the outer door and standing on it. However, not one person could aford one, or would stump up the investment to buy one. We sold them all off at trade prices and ceased dealing with them ;-(
Before I started getting my hands dirty fixing appliances, I was in purchasing, and ultimately finished up as the white goods spares buyer for a large national retailer beginning with C and rhyming with vomit. We were sourcing spares direct from European and Far East manufacturers for mainly own brand products and our pricing policy was very simple – double it. This was in order to supply our own spares network! The individual branches then added their own mark up in order to show a book profit for the company. They of course, doubled the price!
As an example, a Newpol Super 800 timer (Crouzet 900 series) came in to us at £9.30 + VAT = £10.93. Sale to service depot £21.86. Retail price to customer £43.72. Which was expensive 17 years ago……………… But, nothing seems to have changed.
Anyone noticed that the Blomberg interlock is almost, but not quite identical to the Spanish Balay built Bosch machines? You can buy it Gen from Bosch for about £12, or less if you hunt round the distributors. The lock for the Blomberg is only available from a large national retailer begining with C and rhyming with vomit and cost £46 and some pence. Is a pattern emerging here, all these years later?It’s all links in the chain and everybody wants to take their cut. Even the independent brands are doing it. AKO sell timer to Zanussi (Italy); they sell it to Distripart (Italy), they sell it to Distripart (UK), they sell it to distributor, sells it to wholesaler, sells it to me, sells it to customer. 6 links in the chain, and they’re all making a profit. RIP OFF is closer to the truth.
Miele is what drew my attention to this discussion for what it’s worth. Yes, they are beautifully built machines and very reliable. Went to one last week, timer fault – a Crouzet 889 series programmer; almost identical to the Hoover Logic series – under £50 at your chosen wholesaler – Miele price ———–£249 and some pence. This is taking liberties.As for the Merloni business, it’s very simple. You pay them £10,000 and they will build you any spec washer you want, in any volume you wish, with your own trim (Penguin Washers – I wish (not)) for £78 per unit, ex works. UKWhitegoods washers? It would probably ruin us.
Getting more and more deeply cynical,
Penguin.Excellent post Penguin, loads of info in there and more glaring examples of how we, never mind the poor customer, are being ripped off. I was talking about this breifly yesterday actually saying how the manufacturers have actually shot themselves in the foot to a large degree as, since the spares are so expensive no repairers will buy them for stock unless they absolutely must. But there again we’re the idiots running around ragged for a one-off fee irrespective of whether we have to return with spares or not.
K.
Re: What would you recommend?
My Bosch dishwasher, tumbledrier and washing machine have been performing solidly and reliably for 5+ years …. I just love them! Also have a 20 year old Zanussi fridge-freezer which is still going well. None have needed repairs, but the dishwasher needed an inside flush due to the quality of our water supply!
SharonRe: What would you recommend?
Guest wrote:My Bosch dishwasher, tumbledrier and washing machine have been performing solidly and reliably for 5+ years …. I just love them! Sharon
Sharon
We are delighted to hear your comments. It bears out the fact that generally speaking pre 1998 produced machines are just fine and should be lovingly retained and maintained. But post 1998 and to be frank here for moment….just aren’t!
Martin
Re: What would you recommend?
Indesit used to produce Solid, hardworking simple machines as did hoover and hotpoint why do these makes now want to try and produce absolute sh*t when all theyre doing is losing the good reputation they have built up over the past years.
I wish Indesit would just produce the good machines they once did!
I have owned an Indesit WG1233T for 8 years with not a single problem the clothes come out clean first time everytime regardless of how dirty they go in.
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