Where are we going?

I appreciate every sentiment Martin,

Are UKW doing the ‘Mushroom’ thing which is what every other organisation , DASA NESN LUX W/Pool and everyone one else is critisied for !!!!! Yes I do realise the importance of keeping things close to their chest for a while but rumours have been about for a while on this.
Perhaps you need to drip feed information.

I am finding a lot of ‘suspician’ ‘critism’ etc related to this training/P&G thing. Which Ken answered in the ‘New building’ posting.

If UKW isn’t careful it may start alienating the trade, I think it needs to tell people whats going on.

Re: Where are we going?

Well I think this debate is what UKW is all about.

Starting with Martin’s viewpoint. First of all some of us are ex engineers, that qualifies us to be moaners and see the negative side of everything.

Regards the P&G thing, I’m not clear either, but there are no doubt commercial reasons why we only have half the picture; and we will get a better presentation at Sibson. I’m sure if there are a few surprises the place to see them is at a meeting, and those who care can be there to see what it is all about. Call it a carrot if you like, but it should help raise some attendance levels. One thing though, the sampling exercise we enjoyed through P&G as Service Force has come to an end after 14 years. Service Force I’m sure won’t relish the thought of P&G supporting something else at this stage, but life moves on & nothing is forever.

Looking from Sean’s angle, a well structured reply & very succinct. He has summed up what I was getting at just now. If all is put into the public domain too soon, without a full evaluation and structuring process, people get jittery and it all goes tits up. This is certainly the case with DASA & Service Force. Steve Clarke went mad as he had it all set for a national Service Force meeting. Due to the leak the whole affair was tainted with rumour & conjecture, so he put out a subdued presentation, and told us DASA existed should anyone be bothered.

It remains important to hold new strategies and major events to national meetings. That way the information is timed and the whole package presented. If too many ideas were run via this forum too soon, it would be like a committee meeting, and bugger all would get done. Those who are running the show, and have the sense of direction, I feel are going about it the right way.

Sean is right, the only body who can show passion happens to be UKW. There is no one else that has managed to reach to so many like-minded people in this trade. The results are there: NESN & Trubshaw, CDA charging customers & passing as warranty, MFI charging for Haier bits we thought were free, Toolworld and other sources of goods to name a few. Now we have Whirlpool and the way they could steer the trade. We can add to that the exchange of information, fault codes, ideas and moreover the camaraderie we hold as a group.

Any case, I’m off the booze at the moment, so I need something to excite and stimulate me at the September meeting.

See you all at Sibson

Alex

Re: Where are we going?

First off I’ll appologise for not replying earlier, 2 reasons really, I read Martin’s original post last night and I must admit is was a little angry at the time over it and decided to sleep on it, secondly, I’ve been damn busy today with one thing and another.

I still feel I need a quiet hour away from the office here to reply properly as I’ll no doubt get distracted half way through but a couple of answers please if I may ask:

Where is all the negativity in the forums apart from what has been there since day 1 ?

What or who are the “don’t give a toss” and “on a beach somewhere ?” aimed at ?

P&G are not a saviour by a long shot but their money will help us achieve far greater things than we could ever do without them, they are also not pulling the corporate line on us by wanting massive ads or anything like it all over the site, nor are they wanting us to push their products via training. It’s more of a “sponsorship” type relationship.

Obviously I have sat in meetings with the two guys who were at Sibson in February. They essentially have very similar aims to all of us. Raise the profile of the Independant engineer being one of them.

Now, if they want to fund some training in detergent technology and we can tag on some other forms of training at the same time and it costs us or any of the guys nothing then what the feck is wrong with that ?

I also take Flipper’s point about drip feeding, there is very obviously a lot of talk going on about this throughout the trade so we need to quash the inaccurate rumours, but…. what are they first of all ??

Dave.

Re: Where are we going?

I’ve read all this twice now, spoken to Kwatt about it and he’ll reply.

Whilst I can see good points in all the posts you will have to be patience for a little while. So much is happening its impossible to keep you updated with it all. Also as previously stated, lots will be revealed at Sibson.

Kevin

Re: Where are we going?

I’m pleased you speak your mind, I’d far rather here that than have a gaggle of “yes” men to argue with. 😉

I also have no problem with a lot of what’s been said and I take on board some of the comments.

There is a lot of negativity in the trade and, with good reason I feel as we have been for years and, are, being shafted to this day. That has to stop.

But what you have to remember is that in order to compete with the big boys we have to partially play by their rules in order to change the playing field to our advantage. In commercial terms that requires that some things simply have to stay under wraps and that’ll be that. I’m sorry and I really wish I could share it all but I just know that something of it would get out and that could seriously jeapordise almost two years worth of work to this point. Now that would really piss me off.

I’ve asked in the other thread about all the critisism that’s being directed as I just don’t get that or see it and I talk to a lot of people in the industry. In fact several manufacturers et all are actually encouraging and helping us.

Martin, when you see the video that we’re going to show at Sibson you’ll totally get why P&G are interested and also why we should be. It hits home the message and some stark realities that many would probably rather not hear.

That said you’re also getting a visit soon enough, as will you all (I think) from either myself or Kevin to explain a bit further, scrounge some help and to offer you a nice freebie if you want it. I’m not going to bother trying to tap it all out as it would be the size of War & Peace and you’d be far better just to listen face-to-face. But it’s a benefit that those of you in here have, you get the info first.

What you have to remember is that all the infrasctructure for this has had to be created from scratch, that didn’t happen by itself and it didn’t happen overnight either so please, just give us a bit of breathing space. Christ what we’ve accomplished in two years is pretty damn good if you ask me and we’ve certainly done more in that time than many others have in many a long year more.

We are not in any way doing the “mushroom” thing at all. Much of the information is there if you read it. Many of the plans and ideas are there, just look. But I just don’t get the “rumour” thing at all, or is that solely from within the DASA camp? As none of the manufacturers etc. or repairers that I’ve spoken with over the past few months have asked me anything that could be construed in that manner. So who’s wanting to know about it and what do they want to know?

We won’t alienate the trade at all, if anything quite the reverse.

The DASA thing with Lux is old ground, let’s not dig it up, it’s over and done with and there’s sod all that we can do about it now.

There’s a few things that are only really for a face-to-face meeting, it so happens that some of this stuff fits into that catagory and it will be best delivered in person.

Alex is right, it’s not a committee and the projects in question needs clear leadership and direction, that’s just the route we’ve taken. That’s not to say that we do not listen to what is put in here, we do, massively and we put a lot of stock in the opinions voiced in here. It is also the very reason that UKW will never be a trade association, quite frankly we can’t afford to be one as that sense of purpose would be lost in internal politics, for which I have no time.

Why on Earth would there be a backlash? A backlash against what exactly? We’ve never, ever had anything like this or the resources to call upon ever before in this trade, so how can there be a backlash? What is anyone going to do, go and huff in a corner like a petulant child when offered money for nothing, training for nothing and a host of other benefits to boot? Is it just me or does that strike anyone else as totally stupid? Or is it that you want the competition to steal a march on you?

This past month and, especially this past two or three weeks, have been insanely busy for me. To the point where my relationship with T is, shall we say, strained. Why am I doing it, why am I still online at this time on a Friday night, working all weekend and most evening next week, travelling the country brokering deals? It’s simple, I intend to achieve what I set out to do, save this trade and you lot along with it, to offer you something a bit better and that rarest of gifts these days, a future.

Now, maybe I won’t succeed, by by God I’ll try.

We have a base of operations now. We have admin staff. We have trainers with vast reserves of knowledge and we have you guys, do you really think I will not make extremely good use of those resources?

Today, some of you will be pleased to hear, we have been discussing the redesign of the website, totally. Even the logo may be altered.

this will make it far, far easier to navigate and is being looked at by a professional web design and media company, at a cost of many, many thousands of pounds. You will all be invited to test the site should this procceed to the next stage, do you think we could have done that without help from the likes of P&G? Short answer is, “NO”!

Could the trade have funded it, no.

Would the manufacturers etc have funded it, no.

So I have, kept true to my word and I have funded it from other areas. You’re not paying for it but you’ll get a massive benefit from it I hope.

I also give you my word that there’s a lot more and a hell of a lot to be very upbeat about, but we’re not ready…yet. But give us this month at least till you speak to one of us and then just a few more days till Sibson and all will come very clearly into focus, or a lot of it will.

K.

Re: Where are we going?

Oh, great. I have to say that I have detected no “negativity” within TWR. This is the the place where we do the “sorting out” bit of UKW. Sure, the bad news gets posted and discussed, and by and large the policy is sorted out in here.

Where this forum appears to be struggling is with the activities of UKW Ltd. The P&G sponsorship is through the company; personally, I don’t have a problem with that and the updates of what may be developing are re-assuring, although (this being the “secret” forum) a bit more information for discussion would be useful – we are I suppose the chosen few. We could argue that if we are trusted this far, we should be party to all new developments.

As things stand now, it’s all quite exciting – things are afoot; we all have a rough idea of where we’re going to at the next meeting, so perhaps a bit of a briefing in here please Ken before it?

The Trade forums are reflecting a lot of frustration at the moment. The membership at large is not as well informed as this group, so this is hardly surprising, is it?

There’s two things we can do IMO – firstly, “UKW is dealing with (the particular gripe) it” – two months from now we’ll be able to say “UKW is dealing with it and funding the solution”. That’ll be bloody marvellous. And to come, more money making opportunities I hope.

Brace up everybody, we’ll get there, and this is where we have to be positive as a group. Please project throughout the rest of the site.

Cheers,
Chris.

Re: Where are we going?

In all honesty there’s so much been going on with UKW since I went full time on it that it’s hard to keep up, even for me! To try to distill and relay it all either by voice or even in here, email etc leads to you getting the bullet points only, I just couldn’t relay a blow-by-blow account of it all. To illustrate that Kevin and I spent nearly two and a half hours yesterday simply explaining what UKW was and what it does and we only covered the major stuff, not the details.

What was really funny to us was the look on the guy’s faces that we were talking to when we told them what we were gifting to the guys, they simply couldn’t believe that we were offering all that we are and will for free. There was a couple of loose jaws dangling in astonishment. But I’ve seen that before and there’s loads of people been saying that we should charge teh repairers for the services. But that’s not going to happen as it’s not what UKW is a about now, nor will it ever be.

But we’re forced to play by the rules of others in a commercial reality that, whilst we may not like them, we have to abide by them in order to accomplish what we have to. And also bear in mind that UKW Ltd is a private limited company for a reason, that is the primary reason, it means that we can crack on with some stuff without having to have a protracted discussion about every little detail which, as I already explained, would not be possible to do.

I can understand that you may struggle with the P&G tie-up and that’s fine, all will become clear over the next few weeks. But let me use an anology that seemed to work explaining it a while ago…

If your football team gets a sponsor that requires that “Vodafone” is put on their tops no-one really says much do they? Some may grumble about “selling out” or whatever, but it’s not that is it? It allows cash to be invested into the team for better players, grounds and facilities and this is an accepted part of life.

This is no different in effect, we ned to generate funding from somewhere and this is an honest way of doing it, without asking the fans to dip into thier wallets.

K.