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Got called out to a breakdown today for a Waste disposal unit, when I got there 2 engineers from a company I contract to were already on site trying to find out why the machine was tripping the RCD, I was stunned to find out that between them they only had 2 Neons, a Pocket analogue meter & a voltage / continuity probe type tester as test gear.
After finding the fault with a Megger (Fault on supply cable) I asked where their Megger was, they don’t have one & it turns out that between the 4 engineers in the firm there isn’t 1 insulation tester, when I asked about safety testing on completion they said they just check Earth continuity & had no clue that it was a statutory requirement for a repair engineer to carry out Earth Continuity & Insulation tests on Completion of a repair & they are both convinced that the test equipment they use is perfectly adequate for the job.
Have the rules on safety testing been changed or scrapped or maybe I was just dreaming them. 😕Re: Test Gear & Safety testing
Specialist01269 wrote:I was stunned to find out that between them they only had 2 Neons, a Pocket analogue meter & a voltage / continuity probe type tester as test gear.
Well they had some ‘test gear’ at least but a shabby outfit nonetheless. :rolls:
In our game of supplying and fixing domestic appliances I don’t believe we are covered by any electrical rules and regs at all? Unlike electrical contractors that must be 17th edition/ Part P trained and licensed with local authorities. Hence the reason many cowboys ride the range, horse and saddle…little else!
Hands up those out there that own and use a megger and loop tester?……………………all I can hear is tumbleweed rolling down the street. 😈
Re: Test Gear & Safety testing
Can’t beleive how difficult it would be trying to fault find without a meggar.
On a sink unit,could be metal, then there is the earth bonding issue,scary that.
Don’t have a lop tester just the plug in device that confirms correct polarity and earth etc,might have to look into getting a combined one.Re: Test Gear & Safety testing
Hi all: Yes we actually do come under some legal requirements for safety testing: I can’t remember the full legislation but for a long time we have been required to test a piece of equipment for safety on completion of a repair and there are minimum acceptable results. From the IEE code of practice it says that there should be the following: 1) A visual inspection.
2) An Earth continuity test at either a high or low current, for an appliance with a 3 core cordset the earth continuity to be no more than 0.1ohm + R ohms where R is the resistance of the supply cord earth, carried out at a nominal current in the range 20-200ma.
3) An insulation test for a 240v appliance to be carried out at 500v: For class 1 cooking & heating equipment of under 3KW min resistance should be 0.3 megohms.
For general class 1 equipment insulation should be min 1 megohm.
If i remember correctly Graham Dixon made reference to it being a Legal requirement for repair engineers to carry out safety testing on completion of a repair many years ago in his books, as for Earth loop testing as far as I am aware there is no Legal requirement for us to do this. However for our own safety it is good practice, if you don’t want to go to the expense of a full blown Loop tester, there is an excellent plug in tester on the market that at the touch of a button will tell you if the earth volts is less than 50v or above it i.e a good or bad loop & also test if the RCD will trip from the point you are testing. 🙂Re: Test Gear & Safety testing
Your Correct Andy All Appliance That You have Worked ON Have To Be Safety Tested These Days ID Logged you have To Keep A Log And Put A Stamp On The Appliance
Even If You Haven’T Done Any Work On It If It Fails The Visual Inspection
you Have To Stamp It And Keep A Record.u are Also Correct Andy Rod Foster Afan Campus A really Good Teacher
Hell Of A nice Guy he Had The Time To Show And Teach Anything.Paul……
Re: Test Gear & Safety testing
Thanks for that Paul I knew I wasn’t losing it (did that a long time ago).
Yep Rod is one of the good guys, knew his stuff & if he saw you were actually interested in learning would go out of his way to help. Unfortunately haven’t seen him for years now but not someone you could forget.
Andy 😀Re: Test Gear & Safety testing
I think you are referring to the rules for PAT testing when you say you have to keep a log and note visual inspections etc – this is not required for a simple repair ,although it must be tested and left in a safe condition – I have done the C&G Pat testing course so I know that this is correct
FranzRe: Test Gear & Safety testing
Ha ! I can remember broaching this very subject not long after I first became a member here, with varying results !
Having worked for a major manufacturer which is how I got started in this business even then Circa: 1990 the safety testing of all appliances was mandatory and the results logged. Ever since those days I have always maintained this standard which is good practice in my book.
Firstly by performing the relevant safety checks you ensure not only your own personal safety but also that of your customer. Secondly should there be an issue you can show that you did perform all reasoanble steps which would judge you as being competent. We have a duty of care when dealing with the public and that is a legal issue which if it could be shown you acted without due care that you personally would be liable.
Only yesterday I went to a job where an engineer had fitted a surround door seal to a intergrated dishwasher. By questiong the customer it became apparent that the reason the seal was replaced was due to the appliance tripping the RCCD unit and that it was blowing the 13amp fuse in the plug.
The seal had not rectified the fault and it turned out that the previous engineer had not tested for earth insulation as he did not possess the necesarry equipment and as he thought the seal look a bit dodgy and he could not be bothered to remove the appliance he was guessing it may be the seal ! even though it had blown three fuses why he was on site !!!!
Having applied the megger to the appliance I was able to ascertain a serious earthing fault straight away, next removing the appliance I was able to quicky see that the Heating Element was the culprit of this problem.
The customer then asked me why it was that the previous engineer had not found any of this out ? Duh ! how would I know what working practices any other engineer may or may not have ?
I have met a fair few so called engineers who have said Megger ! whats the point, I have never really needed one and I been doing this job for years !
Personally I cannot understand how not having a megger and other testing equipment can be the accepted norm as by having this stuff it will actually HELP you with the job in so many ways.
Re: Test Gear & Safety testing
Hi Squaddie: This was basically the answer I got from these muppets, why would we need to waste money on 1 of those, we don’t need them.
Doh:
1) They are essential for safety testing.
2) They could have found the fault without me going out had they had 1 & more to the point known how to use it.
3) They are actually breaking the Law by not testing on completion of a repair.Unfortunately although this seems to have been a Legal requirement for many years there does not seem to be any way of actually enforcing it.
I, like you was taught from my earliest days in the trade that yes a good Multimeter was a requirement for any serious fault finding, but your Megger was an Essential piece of kit & you should never leave a repair without carrying out Safety tests.
Andy.Re: Test Gear & Safety testing
Exactly Andy, after all said and done a decent megger is a necesarry item and when I leave a repair I know in my own mind that I have done as much as I can in testing that appliance.
Funny that we seem to encounter these could’nt care less types along the way, another one that I heard was this, ” A megger ? thing is if you have one of them things and it shows you a fault, you could be there hours trying to get the fault to go away !
Can you believe it ? Some actually see it as a hindrance.
Re: Test Gear & Safety testing
Hi Mate: Yep I can well believe it, some of the Cowboys we come across are unbelievable & they say the punters are Daft / Dangerous. We have one idiot in the Swansea area that will go to a call where the appliance is tripping the mains, mess about with it prettending to fix it & then chop the Earth wire so it looks o.k i.e it’s not tripping anymore, charges £50.00 then walks away leaving a machine that’s potentially lethal. Safety what bloody Safety, sorry end of rant.
Andy. 8)Re: Test Gear & Safety testing
😯 i just could not do with out my meg meter………would make my day so much harder…….
a must in all tool boxes…..dont leave home with out one…..!!!
canufixit….
Tottaly agree I am lost without the megger.
When I used to work for manufacturesrs we used to have to use a earth loop tester, the amount of times that thing trips the customers sensitive RCD’s, complete pain in the *rse.
We used to ask the customers before using as it may trip there RCD’s.
Just use a polarity checker now.
Re: Test Gear & Safety testing
Specialist01269 wrote:
3) They are actually breaking the Law by not testing on completion of a repair.
Really?I must admit thats news to me 😕 . Are you absolutely sure of your fact on this one?Re: Test Gear & Safety testing
Your welcome to check, but as far as I am aware it has been a legal requirement for Commercial repair engineers to carry out a safety test on completion of a repair for many years.
I thing you will find that this was pointed out in Graham Dixons books back as far as 1974.
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