- This topic has 30 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 22 years, 4 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Can anyone out their put together an idiot proof flow chart on how to re-configure a new module in this type of machine. This is the latest machine with setable parameters via a led lit front panel. I have got the book supplied by Hotpoint but can,t make head nor ass of it. My local Service Force company won’t help other than sending one of their engineers at my expense but won’t allow me to see how he does it. Quote ‘it privileged information’
Re: Electrolux group automatic washer/washer dryer configura
bonzaco wrote:My local Service Force company won’t help other than sending one of their engineers at my expense but won’t allow me to see how he does it. Quote ‘it privileged information’
Do you blame them, it isn’t privileged information as the Hotpoint Manual you mention is exactly the same as we work with.
There is a bit of bad feeling with some S.F. agents as we weren’t good enough in the eyes of DSG. Despite already having the expertise, as we have grown up with the product, they saw fit to pass it out to the cheapest bidder. I won’t give anything out either, if there is a problem, then it should be up to the work provider to supply the solution.
Sorry if it sounds negative, but I’m not in favour of assisting on what is rightfully our own work.
Re: Electrolux group automatic washer/washer dryer configura
An interesting point that one Alex. As I understand it then, outside of the warranty period service force companies feel they have a Right to continue with the captive market. Cost is not really the question here as neither you nor I had any control over the contracts. What we do see clearly however is something that must cause Ted to have sleepless nights – How do you get us all to work together not work against the common good.
Just to add fuel to the fire here, the information that you require Bonzaco actually has to be supplied (under EU law) to you so long as you can show that you are competent to repair it IIRC. I remember the manufacturers being none to happy about an EU ruling saying that info like this has to be supplied if requested, again IIRC, this was actually in relation to the car industry but it applies to ours as well.
So my advice is to call Distri-Part or Lux HQ and just go at it like a dog with a bone as they must supply this information, much as though I’m sure they’d like nothing better than not to do so.
I can also see Alex’s & your local SF agent’s point and it is a valid one.
If it were me, I couldn’t be bothered with the hassle of it and I’d refer the calls for an appliance of that nature back to the WP in question unless *THEY* supplied the technical information. Why should I waste my time and money chasing down info?
K.
Re: Electrolux group automatic washer/washer dryer configura
bonzaco wrote:An interesting point that one Alex. As I understand it then, outside of the warranty period service force companies feel they have a Right to continue with the captive market. Cost is not really the question here as neither you nor I had any control over the contracts. What we do see clearly however is something that must cause Ted to have sleepless nights – How do you get us all to work together not work against the common good.
Lets see if we can make some common sense out of this.
I’m all for working together and agree regards “privileged information”. However, when you are contracted to carry out work for someone, then they should have the infrasructure to deal with your queries, and give their full support. If they cannot, or will not, then you have to consider whether you can work under these conditions. If they are not able to help you, then you have 2 clear options; which is either to phone your work provider and insist they seek a solution and if they cannot oblige, get the customer to do it.
If I get a problem on any Smeg product I phone Servevast and they always come up with a solution, the same applies to Anglo Iberian on one of theirs as well as I.S.D.A. on any of their calls. What I’m saying is, this is one of the things in the background that is in place that we don’t see. In a way it helps these Service Providers to justify why they have a rake off. (The percentage on that is another issue which I don’t want to debate on this).
The information to programme these appliances is out there. The Hotpoint book as mentioned is a direct photocopy of the Service Force manual, the only thing different is the quality and lack of colour on the paper. This book is the only thing we use, and there isn’t anything better. Steve Clarke advised at the DASA AGM, that the technical disc is available to anyone, all they have to do is phone Service Force at Slough and they will supply, at a charge.
I’m trying not to be intransigent over the supply of information, the point as I said earlier. “We weren’t good enough in the eyes of DSG previously, they made their bed, they can lie on it”.
The defence rests it’s case.
Alex
Re: Electrolux group automatic washer/washer dryer configura
I have to say that I agree with Alex here, in my eyes it’s like this…
I do work for many a manufacturer or insurer and I’m more than happy to help out almost anyone on a one-off basis but not on repeated requests for service information or spares. This is especially annoying when some insurer or WP pulls the rug from under my feet as it were and I lose a load of calls from it, I’m hardly going to start handing out my knowledge to someone for free now am I? I mean, I don’t get paid to help others, it doesn’t put food on my table so why should I waste my time and money doing it repeatedly?
Here’s the reality of the situation outlined here, the WP has taken on the contract for these brands that were repaired by SF and have done so with (obviously) either no path to training, service and technical information or a limited path to it. That’s not SF’s problem and why should they, unpaid, supply the information to any Tom, Dick or Harry that wants it? Adding insult to injury is the fact that the work was removed from them.
If SF wants to charge exhorbitant rates for their CD/DVD then that’s their call to do so and, IMHO, it’s up to the WP to provide that resource to the agent *FREE OF CHARGE*! In 99{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of cases there is not enough profit generated by these contracts to pay for such information, training etc. and it’s the person/s that wants the work done’s responsibility to provide their agents with the information to service that contract correctly, just as SF have to do for their own agents which is an investment of both time and money.
Of course SF are trying to protect their own and of course the SF agents are trying to protect their own *core* business, do you blame them? I think anyone in a similar position would do likewise, I know I would. They are not “having a go” at anyone really nor do I believe they are being deliberately obstructive but they are playing politics and I’m afraid that many of the people doing this kind of work for a third party often get caught in the crossfire in instances like this. 😕
Realistically, I would refer the problem back to the WP, it’s their problem and their job to sort it out and earn the “management fee” that they take, not your job to chase about the country trying to get the information.
Just my opinion of course.
K.
Re: Electrolux group automatic washer/washer dryer configura
Forgive me for interfeering, bit is this information not on the TDS offline disc?
Re: Electrolux group automatic washer/washer dryer configura
eastlmark wrote:Forgive me for interfeering, bit is this information not on the TDS offline disc?
Yes it is, I have one mainly because we sell a lot of spares.
If you have the contract to carry out work on these products it should be supplied FOC by whoever is responsible for the contract in my view.
As mentioned, I have a disk full of stuff from ISDAL, anything I need from AIS is faxed to me, Servevast supply a technical disk, all of which I do not pay for.
Dave.
My point exactly!
If a manuacturer comes along and asks me to do work I expect technical support, information and training on the products to be given to me to enable me to keep *THEIR* customers happy and content. This helps everyone in the end and, let’s face it, that cost they would have whether they were training me as an agent or an employee, to me there is no difference in that respect.
Where it falls down, as is the case here, is where a third party steps in and expects us to do all the donkey work and pick up the costs of the training and technical info whilst cutting the costs.
You do the math!
Thankfully most of the companies I work with provide this gladly, many names already mentioned here.
K.
kwatt wrote:My point exactly!
If a manuacturer comes along and asks me to do work I expect technical support, information and training on the products to be given to me to enable me to keep *THEIR* customers happy and content. This helps everyone in the end and, let’s face it, that cost they would have whether they were training me as an agent or an employee, to me there is no difference in that respect.
Where it falls down, as is the case here, is where a third party steps in and expects us to do all the donkey work and pick up the costs of the training and technical info whilst cutting the costs.
K.
This reinforces my point.
I did have a twinge on conscience regards not giving out the information, but took the decision that has been reinforced here. Thanks for the support.
If we get a call on a gas product we always add a tenner if chargeable. Moreover I will NOT supply any spare parts on a gas product, that even includes cosmetic or non-gas parts. I tell customers, “It costs me nearly 3K to get an engineer trained, and I will NOT undermine this and pass things out to others. If you need a part to fit on your gas cooker/fire then you have to have a C.O.R.G.I. engineer”.
We refuse to give out free information to customer’s in any shape or form.
Alex
Re: Electrolux group automatic washer/washer dryer configura
An interesting debate this one. Seems the I’s have it. We have got the same problem as Bonzaco and whilst we are not holding our breath, I have sent a fax to Connect Distribution requesting further info, I’ll let you know what response I get. Perhaps in the meantime some of you larger companies might consider how difficult it is to exist in this environment for the small fry. We have in many cases to rely on the goodwill offered by the big fish.
Re: Electrolux group automatic washer/washer dryer configura
Dales-Electronic wrote:Perhaps in the meantime some of you larger companies might consider how difficult it is to exist in this environment for the small fry. We have in many cases to rely on the goodwill offered by the big fish.
Small fry maybe, but collectively you are part of NESN who have the contract to see the job through. They do not fall into that category.
If they have ownership of the problem, which clearly they do, then it is up to them to assist. It isn’t wholly down to you, after all you are their agent and part of their remit is to support you. There is a solution out there and they the work provider must thefore honour their obligation to DSG, the customer and ultimately YOU. They have to be in a position to reach an answer. If they cannot do this then you must seriously consider whether they are fit to work for.
They the work provider in this case is relying upon your contacts and tenacity to do their research and problem solving. They have their share of the kitty, make them earn it.
Re: Electrolux group automatic washer/washer dryer configura
Rudolph_Hucker wrote:If they have ownership of the problem, which clearly they do, then it is up to them to assist. It isn’t wholly down to you, after all you are their agent and part of their remit is to support you. There is a solution out there and they the work provider must thefore honour their obligation to DSG, the customer and ultimately YOU. They have to be in a position to reach an answer. If they cannot do this then you must seriously consider whether they are fit to work for.
They the work provider in this case is relying upon your contacts and tenacity to do their research and problem solving. They have their share of the kitty, make them earn it.
Exactly!
I have no issue whatsoever with helping out a collegue in need of assistance, just as many of here, but I do have an issue when someone pulls away a fair percentage of my liveliehood as I’m sure you would as well Ian.
But let me ask this, why should you, I or any other in the trade assist any WP gain technical expertise and knowledge that they are not paying for? Often times the lessons are learnt the hard way and at considerable expense, like the old blocked side chamber on the Smeg dishwashers, how many timers have I got that were not needed, at least 10 at £50 a pop! 🙄
Do you see the point being made here? It’s not you or any repairer that’s at fault here but the WP or whatever that is not giving you the backup that is required to enable you to do the job that they want doing. As Rudolph points out, it’s their responsibility to provide you with that knowledge through technical backup or training, not some poor sod that’s out there grafting just as you are!
I am only a small fish in a very big pond, but I can see the strength of this as I’ve been where SF are in this particular instance and there really is no easy resolution to it.
K.
Re: Electrolux group automatic washer/washer dryer configura
Very good debate and one for the future regarding Network-Dasa, however I would hope the way forward is collectively ….a little like JFK once said…
ASK NOT WHAT BONZ CAN DO FOR YOU, BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR BONZ!
We have to learn to share technologies as well as ideas and friendships, and a more private approach to supplying the answer to someone a couple of hundred miles away from you might be appropriate.
regards
TED 🙂Re: Electrolux group automatic washer/washer dryer configura
We all seem to be assuming that this sort of problem is arising due to the “Work Providor” not supplying the info. The fact is for many of us here the “work Providor” is mrs Smith down the road. As the technology increases this sort of problem is going to arise more and more and if we dont share such information between us we will all be stuck and turning down good valuable chargeable work.
I too wouldnt divulge this information to Joe bloggs fixing his own machine, but if someone on this forum or DASA were to ask, and I could help, I would do so because in the future I may one day need assistance. We all have specialist knowledge in different areas and one day, even Alex, may need our help too.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.