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No doubt this has already been raised on UKWG
Spotted this warning on a TV advert this week
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7567754.stm
“Do not go to bed or go out and leave your washing machine on”Shows a person switching off their machine, must be a bit of a coincidence that its a Indesit
:rolls:Re: Its Official Then
No specific brand named or mentioned, Lee. Common sense should dictate that any major power using appliance should not be left unsupervised for any length ot time. Being professionals, we all turn the water off and unplug our major appliances before going on holiday, don’t we?
Penguin45.
Re: Its Official Then
I based that opinion on the amount of insurance assessments I do and the amount of memo`s I receive regarding safety issues and modifications added to some conversations with Electrolux management regarding there wiring looms and there obsession with terminal connections.
Remember when rewiring use the crimping tool and don`t twist the copper, never work on an appliance live and never never wiggle connectors when removing them.
Electrolux are one of the worse in my opinion.
😉
Re: Its Official Then
Penguin45 wrote: Being professionals, we all turn the water off and unplug our major appliances before going on holiday, don’t we?
Penguin45.
Doesn’t everone? 😯
Steve
Re: Its Official Then
lee8 wrote:
Remember when rewiring use the crimping tool and don`t twist the copper…….. and never never wiggle connectors when removing them.
Can you unpack that a bit for me? I was taught not to twist but don’t know why not. As for not wiggling, how the hell else can you get them off sometimes? A straight pull with pliers can also damage them. And what would you use if you didn’t use a crimp?
Mike.Re: Its Official Then
leavemetogetonwithit wrote:
lee8 wrote:
Remember when rewiring use the crimping tool and don`t twist the copper…….. and never never wiggle connectors when removing them.
Can you unpack that a bit for me? I was taught not to twist but don’t know why not. As for not wiggling, how the hell else can you get them off sometimes? A straight pull with pliers can also damage them. And what would you use if you didn’t use a crimp?
Mike.
Twisting creates a “screw” and also increases the CSA, a little bit of movement the CSA decreases and the connector becomes slack creating bad electrical connection and heat if carrying current, is my understanding (unless you know different)
Shame that a lot of connectors are steel, two disimilar metals and all that.Try pushing spade connectors off, long nose pliers or a broad screwdriver blade
Re: Its Official Then
maltheviking wrote:Try pushing spade connectors off, long nose pliers or a broad screwdriver blade
What’s that got to do with switching machines off at night in Scotland Mal?
“Crimping? “Twisting?” and “Wiggling?” what goes on up there in Scotland? A new version perhaps of the Gay Gordons? 😀
Re: Its Official Then
The advice from any manufacturer has always been and, will always be, that no appliance should be left on unattended.
Yet almost every one of them fits delay timers, because customers want them. Ironic really.
The reason is, quite simply, that although people want appliances to run unattended for convenience, to save using Economy 7 or whatever else, it allows the manufacturer to say that this was done at the consumer’s own risk and that they do not accept any responsibility for any damage caused by a failure whilst the appliance was left running unattended.
Having seen a few WD fires and a number of flooded out kitchens due to appliances left on while people went out, I can totally understand the thinking of any manufacturer taking that line.
On the flipside, I can see that customers want to run the appliances when it suits them. Just so long as they understand the risks but, they don’t and always want to blame someone for any disasters that occur.
K.
Re: Its Official Then
Service Force engineers must use this type of tool and not wire cutters.
Twisting the wires once stripped can cause heat, they found out after that was blamed on one incident in a clients home.
Wiggling the connections off can cause them to expand and be loose when reattached, this also was found on another incident in a clients home.
Electrolux connections are extremely tight to remove, this is due to the issues they had in the past.
In 2007 we had a mod kit released for D/W that after another incident in a clients home required a module and connector replacement.
Re: Its Official Then
kwatt wrote:The advice from any manufacturer has always been and, will always be, that no appliance should be left on unattended.
I’m not so sure that is the case Ken? But rather they issue the usual combined installation /operating instructions informing how to correctly locate and connect the appliance.
They instruct how to switch it on and operate it successfully but never ever refer to having to switch it off, disconnect it from the supply, or turn the taps off for that matter.
Even the ISE machines have that delay feature yet no directive toward unattended operation. Thereby proving to some extent how endemic the manufacturers emphasis toward its wonderful product is put over to its purchaser with the ease of operation and extra benefits it has. Yet avoids to warn them of the ‘what if it goes wrong whilst your out shopping or asleep in bed’ scaremongering. The answer then is simply because that would be scaremongering, would engender unnecessary caution and reluctance to purchase such a product in the first place.
Manufacturers are very very careful though to ensure they comply fully to the latest EC Directives in order to display the EC logo on their goods. Without it sales just couldn’t happen anyway. Within the EC directive are laid out guidelines as to what spec the product has to comply with and that includes operating instructions (and disposal instructions) and currently that EC directive doesn’t insist on the need to warn users of the ‘what if factor’.
Similarly, motor manufacturers don’t have to inform the owner of a car to switch off the engine before getting out and leaving it unattended do they? One would assume a certain level of intelligence on behalf of the owner may prevail instead!
There has to come a point where you have to give the consumer some credit for purchasing your wonderful product and not patronise them in telling them to be sure and turn it off when it’s done!
Let’s not forget that when they do indeed go wrong it’s very often the product that has caused the fault and not the user. Their part in all this, after they’ve read the instructions given and complied fully to the operating instructions, is simply to turn it on. When fire and flood occur as a result then the product likely as not is the guilty party in all this and not the user.
lee8 wrote:Service Force engineers must use this type of tool and not wire cutters.
Are there two threads in one going on here?:?
Re: Its Official Then
Martin wrote:One would assume a certain level of intelligence on behalf of the owner may prevail instead!
And that’s the point where you have to assume total stupidity on the part of the customer.
Did you never hear the story of how “don’t place pets in the microwave” came about?
The ingenuity of complete fools is staggering.
K.
Re: Its Official Then
kwatt wrote:Did you never hear the story of how “don’t place pets in the microwave” came about?
No, but remind me to ask you to tell me that story later perhaps. 🙂
I know Chris (Penguin45) earlier in this thread referred to the need for a certain degree of common sense on behalf of the consumer. Now I and manufacturers alike make a similar assumption toward the consumer as the necessary assumptive criteria. Those that connect their dishwasher to a two core extension cable or those that place pets in a microwave are in a minority too small to quantify in the grand scheme of all things whitegoods it has to be agreed at this point has it not?
Therefore overall it’s the product that fails NOT the user. That fail safe mechanisms within the appliance are still woefully inadequate given the above scenarios as an extreme example if you like? That earthed appliances shouldn’t be usable if the live, neutral and earth to it are wrong or if the water leaks inside it or even if someone tries to stuff a cat in a microwave. Technology is readily available for those systems to be put in place but legislation to ensue such safety systems are is not therefore the crazy owner/user is always to blame.:(
By the way (just out of interest you must understand :twisted:)…..I’ve got a 750watt microwave, so how long do I need to set it in order next doors cat, that poops in my front garden, be fully cremated?
Re: Its Official Then
Here’s the story, cut short although it has been regarded as being an urban myth I think there’s some truth to it, there certainly is to the Flymo and loss of toes in the US…
Woman comes in from walking the dog (a poodle legend has it) and decides to dry the poor beast off… in the microwave!
Sues Electrolux for $2 million or whatever because they didn’t say in their literature that she couldn’t do that.
Flymo, well known.
McLaren buggies, in the news recently. You aren’t supposed to fold the buggy up with the child in it, you’d think common sense would prevail but, it doesn’t. Largely I think because there’s loads of people out there that don’t actually have any… too few brain cells is my opinion.
But anyway, you get the point. You have to assume that people are complete and utter idiots because, many are.
You can have all the safety in the world but you have to ask two simple questions of it…
1. Will people actually pay for it?
2. Will they find a way around it and kill/main themselves anyway?
To prove the point on the safety issue, until it became mandatory for car manufacturers to fit airbags most didn’t. The reason cited was that people won’t pay for safety and that, if Ford fitted them, everyone would buy Vauxhall because they were then cheaper, even if more dangerous.
So, people will forego their own (and other family members) safety to save a few quid, settling for sub-standard levels of safety. They think they’ll never need it, it won’t happen to them. Then they blame anyone they can when it does go horribly wrong. The claim is in the post.
To date I’ve seen two damage claims to A N Manufacturer that exceeded £1 million. One for a leak when a machine was left on unattended which flooded two floors down and one where a washer dryer went up in smoke taking the flat above and below out at the same time. So you can be talking about a serious amount of money here. I’d hate to think what the claim would be these days and, no doubt, the user would have whiplash and a permanent limp due it as well in the current climate.
K.
Re: Its Official Then
It became manditory for car makers to fit airbags because of the high levels of fatalities. That the technology was there and cheap enough to implement meant it easy to legislate a requirement by law.
Whitegoods in stark contrast show few casualties therefore high level enforceable legislation toward the manufacturers is not a requirement. But citing your McLaren buggies example would be a more appropriate case in point that would or could relate to whitegoods. In that if ( hypothetical example follows here.:wink:) by trying to close an ISE10 door, the force required was so hard that users had indeed in some cases chopped off the ends of their fingers. ISE and it’s manufacturers would, pretty quickly at least, issue a recall and investigate a remedy. (I would think anyway?:?) Lest massive private compensation McLaren type claims followed?
I agree whole heartedly in your point that users/customers have to be assumed utter idiots though statistically few are. Nevertheless manufacturers have to factor in all avenues of potential safety hazards within their product. Otherwise those more serious issues are either put in place by enforced legislation or massive compensation claims in the law courts.
Nothing made today is idiot proof and if it were it would either be useless or too expensive. Manufacturers don’t target their wares toward the lunatic fringe however secretly and unbeknown to them some of them do buy their product/s without doubt.
The loonies are everywhere but almost all either shop in Comet, Argos or Tesco on-line I think you’ll find? 😈
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