Hot Water Fill Washing Machines
Another article explaining why for most people hot fill is a waste of time and money
All the time we get asked what machines have a hot fill and, to be perfectly honest, many engineers will struggle to understand why people want this feature as, in our opinion, it is a complete waste of time.
When we’re asked about this we are often wondering, in most cases, why on Earth anyone would want a hot fill washing machine.
We are, as repair guys, sort of living in the past a little in this new found age of ecological awareness but, in the past the only machines that did a “proper” mixed hot and cold fill were old Hotpoint and Hoover washing machines (distinctly British and British made) but now with no washing machines made in the UK there is no hot fill washing machine on sale in the UK. Yet.
But these old machines were really pretty primitive and dumb. They just opened both valves and filled until the level was reached, there was no intelligence about them at all.
Later imports from Italy and beyond on occasion had a hot fill, mainly as they likely would sell less if it were omitted, but they only filled with hot water once, on one program only as did some of the Korean washing machines when they sported a hot fill valve. We explain more below.
Separating Myths From Facts
Most people think that a washing machine will fill from both the hot and cold at the same time, fact is that no current machine that we know of does this, period.
Old Hoovers and Hotpoint machines used to do so in the dim and distant past, but even they have not done this for many, many years and since both are now under Italian ownership it is also very unlikely that the feature will ever return.
You see hot fill is really pretty unique to the UK for some reason, outside of the UK there is very little, if any, demand for a hot fill. Manufacturers these days cater for either a European or global market, they are unlikely to change just for the UK.
The next point to make is that almost universally a machine that does have a hot fill capability will almost certainly only take hot water on the high temperature wash on the first fill after the pre-wash is completed. Obviously this is one of the least used programs, the most common in the UK being the 40˚C cottons wash, thus rendering the feature next to useless.
Modern Homes And Hot Fill
In the vast majority of modern UK homes the hot water is supplied either from a tank or from a combination or condenser boiler system.
This means that the water, whether it is stored or “instant” has to travel from the source to the machine itself via the home’s pipework.
In reality with a modern machine this almost inevitably means that by the time that the machine has filled to level that all you’ve done is fill with the cold water that was lying in the plumbing and filling the pipes with that hot water that you thought you drew. This is a total waste of energy and, in the end the machine will continue and heat to the desired temperature anyway.
It also means that there will be almost no saving if indeed there is any at all, on time.
Actually, it can be seen as wasting energy as, after all what you’ve done is fill your pipes with hot water (that used energy to heat) only to have it dissipate away serving no purpose whatsoever. So really then, hot fill could cost you money, not save it.
Of course we have seen the argument over water that is heated via solar power and quite rightly too. But you see the same problem applies, you still have to get the water from the storage tank to the actual machine and, in any event, there’s a whole load of hot water now filling your pipework that has just gone to waste.
Bear in mind that the newer the machine, especially the new A rated appliances, the intake of water is far, far lower than machines of old. A few litres of water is all they take.
Detergents And Clothing
If you use biological detergent (which we recommend you do) then if the incoming water is above 40˚C then you’ve just wasted the detergent. The high temperature will kill the enzymes and lower the efficiency with which the detergent will work. This may well apply for many other detergents as well as they are designed now for low temperature washing, not to work in an environment where the temperature is high and, unknown.
In short the technologies employed have changed and moved on just as they have in most areas of life and hot fill is really no longer required.
There’s another problem though and one that many people probably will not consider.
There are a lot of fabrics now, especially expensive designer clothing, that must be washed correctly and, if too high a temperature is used then they are very likely to be damaged. This is known as “thermal shock” in many cases as, when the hot water hits the clothes then it can cause irreversible damage to the fibres of the garment. Again, this isn’t good and damage is less likely if the temperature is gradually increased and may be avoided altogether.
Conclusion On Hot Fill
The simple conclusion is that, as you will probably now realise, that hot fill to a washing machine or even a dishwasher is that it is highly inadvisable in the case of dishwashers, pretty much a waste of time on washers and you certainly should not base your purchase decision on this feature.
But if you’re really not convinced by the common sense and facts here, we expanded on this in a follow up article on why hot fill is still a waste of time in Hot Water Fill For Washing Machines Again that you can get from the link.
In that one there’s an explanation of how you can do it, sort of right and some experiments that you can try at home that will demonstrate just how pointless it usually will prove to be.
No facts, no figures, but you come to the conclusion that even connected to the hot supply pipe the machine will still fill with cold water in the pipe, that’s all. Complete rubbish. Rewrite the article after you have some real-life statistical data then we might believe you.
A very well presented and reasonable argument that gives us all the information to prove the article to be incorrect, which it is isn’t by the wayWell done sir.Just because you might not like the conclusion does not negate the *FACT* that any machine *WILL* fill with the water standing (know as “standing water”, it’s so well known it even has its own name) that will be residing in your pipework before taking any fresh water at all.And if you read the other articles on the subject, of which there are a few, you will find that there is about 0.7l of standing water per meter of standard 15mm pipe.The conclusions are not pulled from fresh air or without study to back them up.
The predominant ukwhitegoods argument, that hot/cold fill washers don’t save money, can be be easily rebutted through simple calculation. Schoolboy physics rather than rocket science. I wrote out some figures but the software said my comment (3 short paragraphs) was too long! An excellent way to curtail opposing viewpoints, what!
Reasons people would want a hot fill washing machine:1. They have hot water solar panels.2. They have economy 7 (day-time electricity is 3-5 times more expensive).
Reasons people may want a hot-fill washing machine:1. They have hot water solar panels.2. They have economy 7 – and it’s much cheaper to heat your water at night.
[quote name=”Kevin666″]Reasons people may want a hot-fill washing machine:1. They have hot water solar panels.2. They have economy 7 – and it’s much cheaper to heat your water at night.[/quote]2) Wouldn’t you just use a night time was in this instance? Also most economy 7 tarrifs are very poor compared to modern tarrifs.
Doesn’t it depend on the length of the piping? And if you use other hot water first, for example for washing up, further along the piping, won’t the water in the pipes already be hot?
WHAT ABOUT SOLAR PV / THERMAL HEATED WATER.I have a solar PV / immersion controller so most days we have a tank full of hot water that is financially and carbon FREE! My washing machine doesn’t take a hot fill, and oftens draws power from the grid when heating. I get around this by prefilling the machine through the drawer with about 10 large jug fulls of heated water from the taps (just so it runs up the glass on the door). If I had a hot fill I could still manually run off the standing water (e.g. wash the breakfast pots before pressing start) since, like most people, my washer is plumbed in near the kitchen taps. Filling with hot through the drawer works for me, but seems like a big technological step backwards. It is better than paying what now seems to be a huge premium for a modern intelligent hot/cold filling machine where the payback will run into many, many more years than the machine will survive.
so – you have solar hot water and a hot water loop – instant and practically free hot water. This is why people with solar thermal or equivalent want intelligent dual fill washing machines and dishwashers.Incidentally, I have a Meile dishwasher and it specifically advocates attaching it to hot supply if you have solar thermal or equiv.The article could have been more nuanced – there is no black and white… it depends!
we have economy 10 heating/hot water in our rented cottage. Can’t afford to run it! Windfall allowed us to buy and install a solid fuel Rayburn. One small bucket of smokeless fuel gives (1)ambient warmth all day (2) cooking all day and(3) more really hot water than we can ever use. The now double ring immersion heater is never used for electrical heating and will support endless baths. Because of the modern designs, we cannot use this ‘free’hot water in the washing machine, and some of it has to be poured away to release the pent-up hot water standing in the pipework apart from a towel rail that one cannot touch for the heat. My old twin-tub would have been brilliant for this! Again, sales hype etc. has turned us all into lemmings and we all have to follow the crowd! The twin-tub was better for making use of barely-soiled water, plus some added detergent by using it for jeans, work-gear, cushion covers, stuff from the car. Now this water is thrown away. Wasted energy
A modern hot- and cold-fill washing machine will wash your clothes about 10 or 20% faster, and use about 60% less electricity than a purely cold-fill washing machine. There are also heat exchanger machines available that will not wash clothes faster, but will use central heating to heat the cold wash water.Whether or not it is an economical choice for you, will depend on what it would cost to get a plumber in to set it up, and how much you’re paying for your hot water or central heating, and what temperature you’re running your central heating at.It seems this article represents those vendors who didn’t plan ahead and don’t want to lose customers to a better choice. It’s no problem for the manufacturers; many models available in the UK and Europe are sold with hot- and cold-fill in Australia and elsewhere.
HiI have solar water panels, which I believe to be the future. SinceI have almost free hot water is makes sense to hot fill. The only solution at present is where you fill the machine from the hot tap using a watering can.
Proof of the pudding as they say… New W.M/C 12 months ago. Washes take much longer (over 40 degree take at least twice as long). Heater element failed just under a year old (luckily repaired on last day of guarantee) due to limescale damage. Previous M/Cs lasted over 7 years never had a heater element replaced – suspect it’s because it has to do so much work. Also get smelly laundry from water gradually heating in M/C NEVER a problem with our Hot fill M/Cs. This is just a publicity campaign for manufacturers.Oh, and just exactly how long do you think the pipes are from our boiler to the washer?!?!?!?!?!I’d save the costs of the hot water on not having to buy anti-calc tablets and professional quality appliance cleaners!!!
Only a man could come up with such drivel, that hot water is unnecessary in a washing machine. For the average housewife, we now have to wash delicate garments by hand. In Scotland the water is ice cold. Even a small amount of hot water going into the machine lessened the cold shock, and efficiently washed the delicates. – Not now, a freezing cold water attack, opposite of lukewarm label temperature instructions and everything is shocked, shrunk and ruined. So ignore the idealistic theory, and the so called experts/technicians. Unless these people are willing to put their money where there idealists are and reimburse us. Better off to heed the people who actually use these useless machines. I’m off to wash my jersey and curtains by hand again, in the recommended lukewarm water.
Most used programme 40dgree cotton!!! This does not get rid of any bacteria or dust mite debris. Bedding should be washed lowest temp of 60 for a long time. Miele have. Hygiene prigramm for this.
I pour containers of warm (not hot) water into the soap drawer, after 20 seconds of it filling with cold water. I use at least 6 jugs of warm water.It definitely works. The other benefit is no powder residue in the soap drawer, if you use washing powder that is. The energy monitor shows less electricity used when (mostly) warm filling compared to just cold water filling, especially in the winter when the mains cold water is barely above freezing.Everything washes fine, stains are removed and I always pre-treat stains with Shout fabric stain remover. Wash times are about 20 minutes faster.Depending on your hot water setup, if you have cheaper hot water available than heating by electricity, then go ahead and try this. You’ve got nothing to lose.By the way, Ebac washing machines will have hot and cold fill, when launched.
Why do I want a hot-fill washing machine? Simple. My cold-fill takes umpteen times longer to wash a load of laundry than my old hot-fill one did.
They all take longer to wash now Eladram, even with hot fill it would still take longer. Perhaps not as long as cold only but in most installations there would not be a whole lot in it.
Washing-machines made in the USA have hot-fill. I wouldn\’t buy cold-fill under any circumstances.
As an ex-JLA Service Engineer I know there are a great deal of hot & cold fill machines. The problem is they are commercial machines.
Heating in the machine when you already have hot water available is not very efficient.