A fault too far …, perhaps, for my Servis GEM 1000 Automatic

[cfam]

Over the years, the members of this forum have been kind enough to help me diagnose and repair my Servis Washing Machine GEM 1000 Automatic (Model No M330 Serial No(?) 960702713). It has been three years since my last repair. Now I have a new fault which I fear is ‘catastrophic’ insofar that it is beyond a DIY repair. However, let’s not jump the gun and let the wisdom of experience of this forum advise.

It was four weeks ago, yes, it has been that long since I’ve done any laundry, my Gem 1000 awoke me with one mighty thumping sound. I dashed down the stairs into the kitchen to find my Gem 1000 in a spin with the drum making one hell of a racket. I quickly unplugged the Gem 1000 from the mains. Clearly, something was amiss, and from my immediate inspection, it appeared to be due to an unbalanced load. The Gem 1000 had reached the final spin stage of its cycle. Fortunately, there was no water in the drum so I was able to disgorge the contents into a washing basket. Once the laundry was hung out to dry, I returned to the Gem 1000.

I checked first the drum. This did not rotate freely, it some extra effort to rotate. I noted also that the gap between the drum and the seal was larger than I remember; however, memory is not a reliable guide. Since the Gem 1000 was disconnected from the mains, I decided to remove the top and back covers. I could see nothing amiss. The suspension springs were intact, the concrete weight was still intact and, what I presume to be, the shock absorbers at the base were also intact. The belt was still in place and sufficiently tight. So I could check the motor, I connected the Gem 1000 to the mains, switched it on and the motor seemed to, well, motor, but the drum was not happy. As the drum rotated there was a knocking/scraping sound and it was clearly rotating off-centre. I switched off the machine and disconnected from the mains. I reassembled the casing and put the machine back into place. Then I went away for a few weeks. I had just started a new job in a town two hundred miles away.

For what I hope is an obvious reason, I am now working from home and, I hope for what is an equally obvious reason, I have resumed my investigation to diagnose the fault with my Gem 1000. Ah, and it has been a true Gem 1000, having served me faithfully for many years. So I feel obliged to at least diagnose what ails it and, for the sake of our environment, try to fix it. After much searching of the world wide web I found the problem may be due to a spider. So my guess is that there is a problem with the spider assembly unit. Oh, woe is me, does this spider’s bite make it not a DIY repair? But before I enter a period of mourning, I thought, maybe, what if, you know, someone here can come to rescue my perfect Gem 1000. Perhaps they, like the skilled surgeon, will know and be willing to share their knowledge and know-how to bring my little Gem 1000 back health.

So I cast my problem into the ether in the hope that there is a saviour.

Regards,

CFAM.

[electrofix]

what you need is a drum spider like
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Servis-Washing-Machine-Equivalent-651027791/dp/B00GCEFJYA

this shows the drum and spider but we could at one time buy it on its own and bolt it on

chances of getting onw is pretty low

whole drum has got to come out and there is a drum seal that may be perished so may leak on re-assembly unless replaced as well
its a good idea to also change drum bearing

so all i all quite a big job that requires engineering skill

Dave

[murv]

There are 2 shaft sizes listed. If required I would need to know the diameter of the shaft currently fitted.

[andyjawa]

Call it a day man! I can tell you: the bearings are size 6305 and 6205 oil seal 35x62x10. That is the easy bit and cheap bit. The original drum with spider ( that is the bit we all assume is cracked ) is obsolete but there is a Baumatic equiv via partmaster 2923962pm at 216 quid and a wait. The tank seal part number is 1692549pm at 23 quid add this up and the hassle = new machine. If your next question is what to buy I wish you the best of luck there. In my opinion practically everything is challenged one way or t`other but at 300 quid a Zanussi Lindo 300 series is a good`ish bet but out of warranty the spares are not cheap and it has a sealed tank so you cannot change bearings. The only machines that I personnally see that you can are Chinese and Korean made and Vestel efforts which are cheap to buy but have an iffy spares back-up and they are not cheap relative to the cost of the machine and perhaps Ebac made in UK of which little is known and a splattering of Bosch products with rip off spares prices should you falter in the future. Cheery isn`t it.

[murv]

You need to strip the machine to be sure which part(s) are required. I have spider/shaft and bearing kit in stock if you decide to repair (not silly prices)

[cfam]

Thank you for your replies.

And then lock-down happened!!! Which meant that no-one was delivering into the house only to the door. Not much help when the kitchen is at the back of the house and the front door opens onto the street. So far I’ve survived by handwashing a limited set of clothing (there is no nearby launderette). Now we are released, free to move around, breathe fresh air and suppliers can deliver into the home.

While I appreciate Murv’s kind offer, I take on-board Andy-Jawa comments and that the time has come to replace the washing machine with a new one. Electrofix nailed the lid of the coffin in that I lack, not necessarily, the engineering skill but the time and patience required for such an undertaking. While calling in a more experienced engineer is an option, I fear that the cost of their labour means the repair would be uneconomic. Ho-hum.

I realise that choosing a new machine is very much a game of Hobson’s choice (take-it or leave-it) but I would welcome this forum’s thoughts, comments and experiences with these options.

Regards,

CFAM.

I have had a browse around. My budget, well that depends on what is available usually I go for the mid-price range. I have focussed on the following models: Bosch comes recommended by a friend and relative but their machines are at least ten years old, so may not reflect current manufacturing standards.

(1) Bosch WAT 283 71 GB (I assume the GB refers to the three-pin plug and 240V)
(2) Bosch WAT 284 63 GB:
– (a) this appears to be the same as (1) except for the following features: EcoPerfect, Reduced Ironing, Ecobar, which appear to be some extra cosmetic
bells and whistles with seemingly little or no practical use.
– (b) £100 more expensive that (1) – so have I missed something, as far as I can tell the difference is largely cosmetic.

Both of the above models refer to features called ‘AquaPlus’ and ‘B Spin Classification’ – although there is no explanation of these terms. Sorry, I am just stickler for definitions, a consequence of my trade, and I am averse to gobbledygook. Both models have the same user guide on the Bosch website.

I was a little surprised to read that a 60-degree wash cycle can take 285 minutes – that’s nearly five hours! Is such a time typical? I think the most the old machine took was 2 hours 45 mins, and the 40-degree wash took 1 hour 10 mins (I know this because it’s the one I mostly used).

(3) Beko AquaTech WY940 P44 EW
– (a) this is about £150 cheaper than (1), curiously there was no mention for detection of an unbalanced (which I think is what finished off my old machine).
– (b) not much information about wash cycle times other than that it can vary by +/- 90 mins.
– (c) curious about the Bluetooth feature – used in conjunction with an app. As far as I can tell it provides a few extra functions to change wash times and the number of extra rinse cycles but how often would you need to do that. I suspect that the underlying purpose would be for data mining – how often the washing machine is being used, what wash cycles are selected, perhaps even telemetry data such as temperature, spin speed, drum rotation, water usage. But maybe I am just being cynical.

[electrofix]

take a look at the bosch WAN range which seems to use the original bosch tub that has been reliable as opposed to the sealed versions

all machine have out of balance control these days its built into the software

aquaplus give you the option of more rinse water for people with allergies whilst the spin classification is an EU measure of the extraction efficiency.

Dave

[cfam]

Thank you, Dave, for your comments. Might I ask what is the issue with the sealed drum? Also is there any significance in the difference between 8kg and 9kg drums, apart from the weight of washing. I note that the 9kg seems to be the more popular size. I don’t have a family so maybe an 8kg might be easier to fill. I think my largest load for the old machine were the bedsheets (kingsize x 3 and pillowcases x 6) and towels (bath size x 4 + tea towels and hand towels). I’ll quiz my Mother and friend, each has a Bosch. I think my Mother got the 9kg version because she wanted to be able to wash the duvet. Oh well, back to work ….

[electrofix]

the sealed drums seem to have a lower life span for some reason whereas i have had non sealed ones going over 10 years with no problems. You also could do a bearing change should you wish to but the sealed tubs are so expensive its never worth it

as for drum size, you will find the bigger the load the more it sticks out and the only dimension they can increase is depth

Dave

[andyjawa]

“the sealed drums seem to have a lower life span for some reason”. In the days ( from 2 months ago! )when I used to replace sealed tanks the old Bosch sealed tanks I used to dremel cut open to see a possible reason for their early demise: seems to be no grease on the oil seal = friction = premature wear = water = zapped bearings. I do not do any sealed tanks any longer due to delivery damage ( but they were not Bosch ones ). The Bosch / Neff/ Siemens machines where you can dismantle to change drums and bearings are, as Dave points out, expensive / robbery. The very last one I did was a Neff B/in washer dryer ( about 750 quid ) and it was 4 years old when the bearings went South, it was thrashed into near oblivion because the idiot kept on using it knowingly that it sounded distinctly off key and the part prices are etched on my mind : drum complete £234, rear half tank with bearings £230….£464 to the nearest pound plus labour ( embarrassingly cheap so I will not quote it ) followed by motor failure two weeks later @ £240 Neff discounted down from £270. This machine lasted 4.5 years until, you guessed it, bearing failure again, scrapped and good bloody riddance, pile of junk! Anyone reading this learn that the more you very often pay for a washing machine does not necessarily mean you will get what you think you paid for but what you will end up with is a Bosch and Co machine that is technically complex with various sensors and other junk all over the bloody joint and I have had enough of the Tom Foolery; I only do really old ones these days: but old machines = very expensive parts ( or just plain obsolete parts ) = no one gets them done = scrapped = warehouse spares are then written off because no one buys them = no one benefited = typical appliance trade = trade then flashes off its false green credentials but it is all boll*cks in reality!

[electrofix]

my ex had a bosch washer dryer (Smeg i think). bearings were getting noisy so i swapped them. The ones in the ali spider on the back of the tub, Also greased the oil seal. That set of bearings lasted over twice as long and were still ok when she decided for some reason to change it
bearing got from ukwhitegoods shop as Bosch wanted to sell the complete spider at about £200

Dave

[cfam]

Thank you for sharing your insights, thoughts and experiences about washing machines.

I had wondered about the dimensions. So thank you for the prompt. I rechecked the slot where the machine needs to live, that seems to exclude anything greater than 8 kg load; otherwise, the adjacent cupboard door won’t open fully.

The machine my Mother bought back in 2016 was a Bosch WAQ28351GB. Any thoughts on that model? The user guide for this model is almost identical to the model series suggested by Dave.

On the general theme of costs of parts and complexity repairs. The trend towards their increase is inevitable and frustrating. There does not appear to be a movement to compel manufacturers to design their machines so that they can be repaired easily and in a cost-effective manner. It is not really in their interests to do so. But all devices will breakdown, even the humble quartz clock! So creating a device that is not cost-effective to repair means you get to sell more devices. Of course, there needs to be a balance between the rate of breakdown vs the rate of replacement otherwise there would be reputational damage. I note warranties mostly only cover 5 years, although I do see some claiming 10 years. But how much can you really rely on such bits of paper? It is not in the interest of the company to be repairing – the cost of call centres, cost of engineer call outs, cost of parts. It is the economics of wastefulness that afflicts industrialised societies. It is not clear to me how consumers can battle against this tide. Perhaps the campaigning environmental groups should take up the cause to promote well-designed devices that can be maintained cost-effectively. I suppose we must also make room for innovation so such devices can evolve to be more resource-efficient. For example, the humble light bulb has evolved from wasteful carbon/tungsten filament to highly energy-efficient semi-conductor, and that is only in the past five years or so. In principle, I’ll never have to replace a light bulb again (I’m assuming my led bulbs will outlive me), except the ones that break down.

However, I hope that the replacement machine – now desperately needed before the second wave hits – once decided upon will last at least ten years.

Regards,

CFAM

[cfam]

Just another thought – if you were in a position to be able to design or influence the design for a washing machine – what approach would you take? What would be the top ten features you would incorporate to make your job of repairing easy and cost-effective?

[electrofix]

the WAQ uses a sealed tub system something the WAN series did not have last time i looked

you can check any boach machine here
https://www.bosch-home.co.uk/customer-service/spare-parts-search

put in Enr number and scroll down to the highest number

then skip to the tub diagrams. if you can buy tub internals then its spilittable if not its a one piece tub

Dave

[andyjawa]

“Just another thought – if you were in a position to be able to design or influence the design for a washing machine – what approach would you take? What would be the top ten features you would incorporate to make your job of repairing easy and cost-effective? “
Basically a revamp of a Zanussi DL series but as a max capacity of 7kg and max speed 1100 using a brush motor working inconjunction with a simple motor pcboard, AKO electromechanical timer with thermostop, steel and enamel tank, quick removable front panel, cast iron external spider with grease nipples, marine grade ally spider, hot and cold fill using half inch nozzle valves – all programmes except wool hot and cold fill except 60 and 90 degrees where it fills hot, top notch heater, mechanical old type switches, separate thermostat, no base plate, wide rubber feet, increased water level or low level by switch, adjustable tension belt three quaters of an inch wide by 1/8″ thick, triple suspension, and cast iron weights locked by castle nuts and split pins, cast metal door, a proper pump with a proper filter with emergency drain pipe, stamped,( not a cast hinge ) and door handle with solenoid release door lock, nice large metal drum preformed wash paddles, max programme running time excl prewash 2.30 hours, quickiest wash at 45 minutes….you plan ahead!. In other words everything a modern washing machine is not with the added benefit of not a single microprocessor board in site nor anything built-in!!!! Does that answer your question? Retail cost 1500 quid 3 year warranty on all parts, Guaranteed parts availability for 30 years+. Made in England by people who know what they are doing. A ban on all imported cr*p. That should do it and stop all this p*ss*ng and ars*ng about in the trade trying to be clever.

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