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A household of three high dependancy disabled residents, they are incontience (bed wetters).
Currently an 18 months old 8kg Hpt washer is taking the full brunt of the 6 to 9 daily washes. They wear out almost every year.
There was a second machine a Whirlpool – worn bearings.
The carer asked if they would be better to go for bigger machine. I had a look and found a 12kg from LG, 11kg from Hpt and 10.5kg from Maytag (top loader). All similar price.
Which is the best out of the three?
Re: Advice needed on small residential home for disabled
Answer: None.
In the situation and the use that’s being given a full commercial machine is the only sensible option. Anything else, including Miele, V-Zug or ISE are not designed to cope with that sort of use and they will fail prematurely even if they may well last a bit longer.
It is full on commercial use that twiknix.
If you sell them any domestic at all then you could end up in trouble over it and, it ain’t worth the grief, trust me.
K.
Re: Advice needed on small residential home for disabled
Hi
The Maytag would be the best out of those choices as it comes with a one year commercial warranty. The others won’t have any warranty at all as they are domestic appliances.
The Maytag does not have a heater element so can achieve quick wash cycles of around 20 minutes. However a large amount of hot and cold water is required as it will consume around 100 litres a wash. Also a 2″ standpipe is required for the waste.
Another option albeit a more expensive one would be our own ISE range which come with a full three year warranty and have local service.
DonRe: Advice needed on small residential home for disabled
Don, you forgot…
It’s soiled laundry.
They legally need a WRAS approved machine with a dump valve or they could face a hefty, hefty fine.
Twiknix could also get in hot water if he doesn’t advise accordingly.
Which is why I said that none are suitable.
K.
Re: Advice needed on small residential home for disabled
Thanks guys,
I have found a few whirlpool commercial for around £600 upwards but I recalled few years ago that this machine didn’t last well (18 months from Costco) despite being used in an hairdresser with all those towels to wash 3 times a day.
I am researching the possibility getting the carers to consider renting commercial washer as it is more cost effective for them.
I never thought I would find it quite stressful on finding a suitable machine to suit their budget. Will let you know my findings.
Huh? Dump valve? Can you explain further please?
Re: Advice needed on small residential home for disabled
Google is your’e friend 😉
Good old Wiki comes to the rescue again Dump valve on washing machine.
DonRe: Advice needed on small residential home for disabled
twicknix wrote:Huh? Dump valve? Can you explain further please?
Where you have an installation that requires that soiled items are to be washed you must be able to completely evacuate the machine after use to prevent cross contamination.
This is a legal requirement in such installs. No ifs, no buts, it has to be that way, end of discussion and if they get caught operating any other way they can get fined up the yahoos for it.
That will include veterinary practices, anywhere that washes clothing or bedding on a commercial footing such as nursing homes etc that have any degree of soiled items or there is any possibility of soiled items being laundered. The jury is out on hairdressers, that one depends on who you talk to.
The dump valve is essentially a gravity drain system that allows all the water to be removed from the machine and also requires special plumbing carried out by WRAS Approved plumber.
If a manufacturer like ourselves, Miele or anyone else clocks that this is the case and that the machine is unsuitable they will often disown it immediately. That could leave you in the cart on warranty and allsorts as you’ve not assessed and advised properly so, in all likelihood, makes you legally responsible.
My advice is, if you are not involved in this world, run a mile and don’t get involved as it usually won’t end well making it more bother than it’s worth.
K.
Re: Advice needed on small residential home for disabled
Jla 01422822282
Armstrongs 0163833551
Girbeau UK (google them )All do small commercials of one sort or another
If they are incontinent don’t go near a top loader as they don’t heatForget light or semi pro you /they need a full on commercial
Re: Advice needed on small residential home for disabled
Thanks for the advice, I quickly got the hint and produced a letter to the care home. I explained the situation and the nature of the care home that they are best advised to go down the commercial route and gave them few websites printouts with phone numbers.
The trouble is that this particular care home did not recognise themselves as care home as the set up was a private arrangement and not under social services radar.
So I left it with them and hoped to have steered them to the right direction.
Re: Advice needed on small residential home for disabled
I think it was a few years or so ago Matt that this got on my radar as a potentially serious problem.
Just a few months ago we had the Scottish water crew in asking what we did, did we do commercial laundry, where were our test points, wanted to inspect and so on.
A few months before that I was invited to comment a government scheme all about improper waste, SEPA or something like that.
In short, this sort of thing is on the radar.
The one I clocked a few years back was going on was a vet practice who had been given a tug by a local water inspector. They were basically told that they could sort out the laundry facilities, shut the place down, outsource the laundry or they would be fined in the thousands.
That wasn’t even humans.
Care to guess how hard they would go on a care home or somewhere dealing with human patients or whatever in care? Or indeed if there was some sort of infection that was blamed for harm, even death?
I for one do not wish to find out.
Especially so in the culture we live in these days where there’s always someone at fault, apparently we don’t have accidents any longer. :rolls:
Therefore the standing advice from myself and the official position of ISE is that if there is ANY potential for soiled laundry then any manner of standard domestic is unsuitable. In England and Wales a WRAS approved machine is mandatory, that’s it.
To back that policy up and, to prevent a legal action coming my way, any machines discovered to be in such situations are simply disavowed as unsuitable for circumstances. The reason being that this is full commercial use and not light commercial which we will accept.
My warning is not me being pedantic, it’s to try to protect you guys from your backside (and mine) ending up in the fire as I can assure you 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} that if it comes to it, blame will go anywhere and at some point it will come at the seller. If you did anything at all wrong and it goes legal, you’ll be in the frame for blame and the subsequent claim.
I’m not saying it will, I’m saying it could and I see no point in inviting trouble you can avoid easily.
By having what may appear to be a harsh policy in place insulates ISE from harm to a large degree as there is a policy and that policy is very clear and can be shown to be adhered to.
I get completely that you will often have the sob story about the poor charity/business/organisation with no money and they don’t really need a whatever but can make do with a bla whatever but, the reality is that if it all goes sideways I bet that story changes. Been there, got the t-shirt, learned and will not make the same mistake again as it comes down to your word against theirs and, you’re the “expert”.
I just hope that knowledge helps others and possibly saves them a heap of grief.
K.
Re: Advice needed on small residential home for disabled
Thanks Ken,
It was interesting to note that very few people are aware of this regulations concerning dump valve and WRAS approved appliances and I think the reason for this that no one knows what it was meant to look like nor even the retailer who I buys my machines from them as trade has never come across it. They admit that they have supplied appliances to similar properties.
Like you said that I am the ‘expert’ and would have been in the position to supply and install the appliance which will make me liable for falling foul to the regulations. As for retailers, they just supply the machine and hands off so how were they meant to know the type of property and the nature of using the machine? Will they get into trouble for facilitating the machine or being held liable for providing the machine that deemed unsuitable for them when they could make it clear that such appliances are not suitable for such environment?
Perhaps a type of poster on the side saying “Domestic appliances for domestic only and does not include … care homes, vets, hairdressers, catering,,, blah blah.” Perhaps the public or even managers of such settings would be indirectly educated and take the commercial route?
Perhaps it is more common than we thought and people have not realised it? Where the line will be drawn? Elderly couple who’s other half is disabled and bed wetter in their own private home, does this rules applies to them? People who calls us for repair don’t tell us what kind of environment the appliance is set in, and sometimes you will find it would be a wasted trip which could have been avoided?
There’s so much you can do over the phone without asking too many questions as one would want to get the first impression right.
Re: Advice needed on small residential home for disabled
I don’t make the rules. 😉
Thing with the retailer is that when you sell to a customer you form a contract in law and that makes you liable for a whole bunch of things under basic consumer protection, the SoGA in effect.
I know exactly what you’re saying as I’ve invalidated a few warranties over the years where abnormal use has been detected. When that happens the customer fires back at the retailer after kicking off with the manufacturer and claims the old fit for purpose thing normally.
At that point it then becomes a discussion around who told what to whom and, if any retailer is sharp enough they will know about this and be able to largely demonstrate that had the intended use been made clear that they would not have advised or, possibly even sold, that product to that customer for that use as it would not be suitable.
If that’s explained and the customer still insists on buying an inappropriate product then that’s entirely their lookout. Just make sure you cover your ****.
What I have seen time and time again is “commercial” properties trying to use our machines among others commercially and claim domestic use and want the domestic warranty as well. I’ve even seen them trying to register ten year warranties with us.
The reason is dead simple, they want to save money often completely unaware of or ignoring their responsibility and trying to punt that onto others. Whether it’s ignorance or deliberate is open to debate for each case but I’ve caught more than a few where it is essentially fraudulent.
For a manager of some of these places it’s less than £1K versus over £2.5K for what they actually should have, possibly several times over so for some the risk is worth taking as it saves them thousands of pounds. Make no mistake, many of these establishments are well aware of this despite what they may say.
The one that cracks us up a lot is, customer says it isn’t in commercial use and so a domestic warranty should apply yet they have paid through a business medium and requested a VAT receipt to claim back from HMRC. So, who did they defraud, the retailer or HMRC as they’ve lied to one or the other.
I would doubt very much if it applies to home use, that would be considered domestic although the use level would need considered. But, you’re not mixing different families there so I’d guess that’d likely be okay.
If the owner was bringing laundry home from a care facility though (commercial, charity, makes no odds) and washing that at home, that’s commercial use.
Even a machine in a rented property is commercial use, it’s on hire/loan.
It is or can get quite complex once you step beyond the realms of simple washing for the people living in what most would consider a normal domestic dwelling with a single family in it.
K.
Re: Advice needed on small residential home for disabled
Very interesting, I’ve never come across these water regulations. Reading around, it seems these are mainly to do with minimising the risk of contaminating the water supply. The risk is, if the water supply pressure drops, contaminated water from the washing machine could be sucked back into the water supply through backsyphonage. I came across detailed guidance here:
Interestingly, washing machines in catering establishments are also subject to additional requirements. Most domestic washing machines are category 3, whereas catering establishments require category 4 and healthcare, category 5.
Re: Advice needed on small residential home for disabled
We had a case recently where the water authority made a vets practice remove the ISE ,but were happy to leave the Miele domestics in service. I don’t understand why .
Re: Advice needed on small residential home for disabled
stratfordgirl wrote:I came across detailed guidance here:
That is a priceless piece of information and sets out the regs brilliantly. I reckon all those involved in potential ‘commercial’ environments should have a copy on hand and refer to it. Thanks for the heads up! 😀
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