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Re: Advisory Council defining it’s roll and members
Excellent stuff Sean and Chris 😀
John you hairy arsed Scots twat where are you ? 😆
One point I would like to make which Sean has highlighted, Ken, Kev or myself should not be giving opinions here at all IMO, this is the AC forum, we can answer questions and help should we be asked, apart from that… 😉
Dave.
No, we should be giving opinions, or at least I think so.
We came up with this, we’re not steering it, only offering an opinion and guidance, they can tell us to sod off if they want.
K.
Re: Advisory Council defining it’s roll and members
Need to define the Membershp thing…… If we get a complaint through Directories it’s still going to have to be dealt with……. I suspect that for credibilty we have to cover all of it or none of it.
By the same token if we are to sell the “for the membership” idea “in house” a direct involvement in members activities must be seen on view.
Or we can sit on our behinds on the basis that the AC is here for problems that may occur once a year, in which case this is a lot of puff bother and blow for appearances sake.
Personally, I’d rather the AC was seen to be doing something, than lurking in the background as a sinister “big stick”.
Chris.
Re: Advisory Council defining it’s roll and members
Dave_Conway wrote:John you hairy arsed Scots twat where are you ? :lol:Dave.
Sorry guys, was out all day yesterday on a mission to test out the new supply of Carling Cold at my local never got home till 10.00 p.m. and was all set to reply to the posts in here when I realised that my keyboard had changed from QWERTY to hieroglyphics, so went to bed instead :beer:
Still not 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} this morning so I will go through a few points in random order.Dave_Conway wrote:One point I would like to make which Sean has highlighted, Ken, Kev or myself should not be giving opinions here at all IMO, this is the AC forum, we can answer questions and help should we be asked, apart from that… ;)Dave.
Personally I don’t see a problem with this and would encourage your opinions in here ( six brains better than 3 ) it is a sad fact that between us we have about 130 years of experience in the trade so the more opinions the better.
kheath wrote:1) Why should the AC “control” the subscriber funds. What exactly do you mean by control?
KevinI think control is the wrong word here, Control rests with the site admin and so it should, the AC’s role would be to advise and recommend where the cash goes with the approval of the majority of subscribers.
kheath wrote:2) Payment for time and expenses and excess funding being returned to subscriber fund is mentioned. Where is this funding, who might have to pay what and when?Kevin
I am a bit confused on this as well Ken. Can you ever imagine a manufacturer or work provider coming to the AC and asking us to mediate in a dispute between them and one of members?
kheath wrote:I can’t agree with the Pat-UK thing going to the AC as his case is way to far gone through due process for us to interfere. Its already at court and I’m afraid Pat-UK has left it too late to make his problem known.Kevin
After reading through all the posts on Pat-UK I agree. I also think on reflection that any kind of financial help in cases like this should be offered to subscribers only. We have not got an unlimited supply of cash in the fund and if we are going to use the cash to help out members in time of need it should go to the ones who contributed to the fund. It has been pointed out to members the benefits of being a subscriber and if they dont want to spend £5 per month to join the club they cannot expect support from the people who have joined. Pat-Uk is getting advice on the thread and thats about as far as we should go with a non-subscriber.
Del wrote:Problem – not all members are Subscribers – you don’t have to Subscribe or sign the Charter to be in Directories. Does the AC claim a jurisdiction in Directories? It’s still a membership thing.Sean
Should all members who are listed in the directories be made to sign and abide by the charter before they get a listing even though they are not subscribers? To the public all firms in the directories are UKW members so do we want to advertise members who might not have PL insurance?
Del wrote: John McKenzie (John Mac) Has been involved in the whitegoods industry since god’s dog was a pup, cut his milk teeth on the plastic program card from a hoover keymatic.
Went on to attend public school at Glasgow borstal where he attained an honors degree in
Haggiss trafficking, is fluent in two lanuages (Glaswegian when sober Gibberish when pissed) ……………….. err I could go on but I think but this might encourage him to edit his own profileSpot on apart from the borstal, It was a boarding school in Greenock, Government approved.
It should read: John McKenzie is a director of a midlands based domestic appliance company with 28 years experience within the trade. The company has 11 field engineers and 7 administration staff.
Good idea to have an AC meeting the night before the UKW meet in September, I will be there.
John
Re: Advisory Council defining it’s roll and members
Right lads now the games in play lets start by making a few rules for ourselves as regards this forum,
If we are not careful we will start to loose the thread of any conversation or topic unless we start to use seperate thread headings for different items. we now have the space so let’s use it
This first thread should be confined to the introduction with a basic overview of who we are and what we do.
we need seperate threads to deal with :- rules, policy, adjudications, enquiries, topic of the week, etc.
Dave, I have no problem with input from the admin team as long as A.C. decisions remain with the members of the A.C. other wise there is no point in us being here.
I think that we all know one another well enough by now to know that we all have the very best intrests of UKW at heart.
Sean
Re: Advisory Council defining it’s roll and members
Penguin45 wrote:Need to define the Membershp thing…… If we get a complaint through Directories it’s still going to have to be dealt with……. I suspect that for credibilty we have to cover all of it or none of it.
I totally agree Chris we need to define the difference in the
membership status between a member and subscribing memberPenguin45 wrote:
By the same token if we are to sell the “for the membership” idea “in house” a direct involvement in members activities must be seen on view.Or we can sit on our behinds on the basis that the AC is
here for problems that may occur once a year,
in which case this is a lot of puff bother and blow for
appearances sake.We should use it as an oppurtunity to get the membership
more involved in helping to formulate rules as we should be
seen as a figurehead for the views and aspirations of the
membership. It is amasing how loyal a person can be to
something they have helped to build.Penguin45 wrote:
Personally, I’d rather the AC was seen to be doing something, than lurking in the background as a sinister “big stick”.
We have already had a case in point where i see another
role for the A.C. that is the case of pat uk where both you
and john gave support as individual members perhaps
this could have been done wearing your A.C. hats on.
This would have shown that the A.C. is there to support members not just dictate to them. though we would have to reseve the
right to comunicate with the complainant.
Chris.Sean
Re: Advisory Council defining it’s roll and members
Chris wrote:Need to define the Membershp thing…… If we get a complaint through Directories it’s still going to have to be dealt with……. I suspect that for credibilty we have to cover all of it or none of it.
Imdeed I agree. The original concept that was in my head was that….
Mrs Bloggs complains about X member.
We will get that email or call and try to deal with it as best we can immediately. If it can be solved quickly and easily at that stage then that’s it.
If not we kick it up to the AC to consider where the repairer cannot or will not respond to the complaint.
Whilst we can’t really do much about someone who does not advertise in Repairs@ or the directory the AC can sanction (ultimately) the removal from both, a suspension from both or either etc. Likewise you could in theory, kick someone out the subscribers if it got really grim. I see no call to differentiate here, if a repairer uses the site to promote his business then that’s ultimately governed by site admin I guess where it is commercial advertising, but where it is a repairer getting it for free the AC rules.
Obviously we will publish what happens in a condensed format which, especially in terms of gaining contract work, could do massive financial damage to a company.
So, in effect it does weild a fair bit of power make no mistake.
Chris wrote:Personally, I’d rather the AC was seen to be doing something, than lurking in the background as a sinister “big stick”.
I totally agree and the point of the AC is to work with them to improve the situation, not simply to beat them up, that is the last resort and I hope we never get to that stage.
John wrote:I think control is the wrong word here, Control rests with the site admin and so it should, the AC’s role would be to advise and recommend where the cash goes with the approval of the majority of subscribers.
Sussinct and totally correct, control is the wrong word and I think that you three should liase with the subscribers where required to effect the best use of funding as appropriate.
John wrote:I am a bit confused on this as well Ken. Can you ever imagine a manufacturer or work provider coming to the AC and asking us to mediate in a dispute between them and one of members?
Frankly, yes.
Consider that there is no other means by which to mediate any dispute currently, which we all get involved in from time to time. With the new openness in the industry due to UKW many of these people have to be seen to be operating fairly and above board, otherwise they could get a slagging for no reason. Likewise a repairer could also be berated. It may well be in their interest to have an independent body that can mediate a dispute.
We’re a long way off being able to offer that thus far, but on based on conversations I’ve had there is interest in the concept.
Also consider, that whilst it is not a legal body as such, it is a panel of experts in the field therefore would be regarded as such in a court and it’s opinion could carry one hell of a weight in a courtroom.
It is a concept that has yet to be proved, in some ways the Pat UK thing was an excuse to dip our toe into that water if it went that far. There is always method in my madness. 😉
That aside, I totally agree with you on the Pat UK front you’ll be surprised to hear, but I ran the option past everyone and that’s as much as I can do. Sometimes sitting where I sit, you have to really play Devil’s Advocate.
I agree with Sean in that now is the stage to set up the rules and format as well as the definitions of who is what, that is the first thing to be done.
K.
Re: Advisory Council defining it’s roll and members
Ok your definately up and running, keep the momentem and you deliver the goods.
from here I’ll read only, if anyone wants to run something past me its zen70292@zen.co.uk or in open forum here…..
Ken, Dave and I will discuss giving you guys a budget to start from this week when we meet. ooppss!!!! ffs can’t delete already pressed sumit 😆
Kevin
Re: Advisory Council defining it’s roll and members
draft 3
UK Whitegoods Advisory Council
Introduction
The Uk Whitegoods Advisory council was set up in September 2004 at its 3 rd. national meeting in Stafford
After the UKW database of independent domestic appliance repairers went live on the site. It was felt by a majority of the membership that an Advisory Council (A.C.) should be set up to monitor and uphold the Service Charter Agreement that each subscribing member has had to agree to comply with before their individual service and contact details can be posted on to the site data base.Though we trust, that our members are some of the most conscientious in the land, when it comes to delivering a first class level of service to customers. It was felt that a system must be put in place to safeguard the integrity of the website and it’s membership.
For this reason the A.C. was set up to handle any complaints from members of the public regarding service received from UKW members via Repairs @ or whose details they have acquired directly from the UKW site database.
We fully expect as a council, to be the most under worked section of the site as the vast majority of disputes will always be amicably resolved between the service provider and the customer. This will always be the preferred route and will be insisted upon before the A.C. becomes involved in any dispute.
When this cannot be achieved and the customer complains directly to either UKW Administration Team or the UKW A.C. The matter will then be investigated by the A.C.
where an adjudication will be arrived at and published on the site.Basically The UKW Advisory Council has been created as an independent body within UKW to advise, arbitrate, mediate and advocate on matters of interest to the membership of UKW.
CouncillorsThe council members are
Chris Chantell
Chris Chantrell (Penguin45) Has been involved in the white goods industry for 19 years and has been a sole trader for the last 12
Sean Delaney
Sean Delaney (Del) Has been involved in the whitegoods industry for twenty three years and in partnership started his own business sixteen years ago employs four engineering staff and two administrators. Previous to the whitegoods industry was an electrician for fourteen years with the electricity board
John MckenzieJohn McKenzie (John Mac11) is a director of a midlands based domestic appliance company with 28 years experience within the trade. The company has 11 field engineers and 7 administration staff.
It should be noted that the A.C. has been formed from as broard a spectrum of the UKW membership as possible. Therefore it is hoped that it will be better able to represent and reflect the diversity of trade members that form the UKW membership.
……………………………………………………………………………………….o.k. guy’s remember that this is only the introduction we will go on to to draft other topics like rules and sanctions later and seperatley but for now are we happy yet with the intro. or do you think it needs any more drafting ?
Re: Advisory Council defining it’s roll and members
No mention of the positive things we may be doing as well, but otherwise fine by me.
Punctuation Para 3 needs sorting……… 🙂
Chris.
Re: Advisory Council defining it’s roll and members
Del wrote:where an adjudication will be arrived at and published on the site
It all looks fine to me but I am not sure about the above. I am trying to think of a circumstance where we might not want to publish our findings, can’t think of one off hand but I am sure there will come a time when it will not be prudent to publish. The above sentence commits us to publish every time.Does this make sense??
John
Publishing the result comes down to, we/you didn’t get anywhere in the best attempt to resolve the situation with the repairer or company in question.
If nest effort is made to rectify the problem then I can see no call to publish, can you?
In effect, you expose the cowboys, not the reasonable companies.
K.
Re: Advisory Council defining it’s roll and members
I think that the possibilty of exposure is useful. It may be that the AC can reasonably post that –
“The dispute between Friendly Domestics and Mrs Nasty has been resolved to the satisfaction of all parties”.
Equally –
“The AC finds that Friendly Domestics has failed to comply with the UKW Charter in the matter of Mrs Nasty and a sanction has been applied”
Or –
“The AC finds Mrs Nasty’s case to be without foundation in her dispute with Friendly Domestics.”
That’s all that needs to be said for action to have seen to taken (or not). Obviously we would have to write up a report as to the nature of any given finding and archive it – should this be accessible? On request? Generally via a link?
It would be unreasonable to report some and not others, so, all or none? If we go for none, how’s anyone to know we’re doing anything? I don’t think anyone is sufficiently daft (except maybe “Pup”) to accept that there will never be a problem, so it has to be all.
Cheers,
Chris.Re: Advisory Council defining it’s roll and members
Hi Lad’s
Chris, that is exactly the kind of thing I had in mind nothing too detailed on the site but we have to be seen to be doing our job, to be taken seriously.
A more detailed adjudication will be sent to the complainant and the member with one kept archived in our records.
John, I think I goes without saying that if there is any reasonable doubt over a complaint. Then the benifit of that doubt must go to our members first, as it’s his reputation on the line.
Could you draft a paragraph to excentuate the positive aspects that the A.C. will bring to the membership.
I think it should slot in nicely just over the councillors.
Chris, please feel free at any time, to correct any gramatical errors or spilling misteaks.
Sean
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