bleckmann or thermowatt

[spimps]

Re: bleckmann or thermowatt

Martin seems to be on the right track but just an additional thought.
Make sure you are using decent powder,and,the correct amount.
Too much powder will increase soap suds etc and as the drum turns exposes the element to air pockets in the foam as opposed to being constantly immersed in water which doesn’t help element life.
Also smaller the load less powder.As Martin says a full insulation test on the machine would tell you if ithas a clean bill of health.

[busybr]

Re: bleckmann or thermowatt

Hi Spimps. Thanks for your reply.

WRT powder, I actually use very little. I work on the theory that the high temperatures I wash at (which are essential for what I am washing) are going a long way to ‘cleaning’ the laundry anyway, so I have never used too much powder (and I only ever use big-box powder) in the wash.

My gut feeling is that there is something underlying which goes back to when / why the heater bracket first broke. As in, I am wondering if maybe the elements sit too tightly / not tightly enough in situ.

I saw this machine being advertised in this months C&M (Cleaning and Maintenance) magazine, and got rather excited:

http://www.laundryserv.co.uk/products/w … w5064.aspx

Then I saw the price :eeek: At £2500 or thereabouts, I don’t think it’s the one for me.

[spimps]

Re: bleckmann or thermowatt

It’s not always how much powder it’s whether or not it’s over sudsing.
Modern washers wash in very low kevel water,so when the machine is on the wash/heater section when it gets into that section there can be a visible layer of suds on the top of the water.
Doesn’t take much time for a heater exposed in air/suds as opposed to water, for this to happen,white deposit on the heater can be indicative of that.
I work quite a lot on true commercials and often find this with nursing homes using cheap or domestic powder not following manufactures guides..
When you remove a heater as you say there are two marks where the clip fits,you can use a torch to see the clip through the heater fitting when out or through the inner drum holes with a torch when the heater is in situ to ensure it’s OK.
The theory on the powder about not needing much on high temps should be more towards,how soiled,how large is the load,temperature is not relevant.The powder is designed to not only extract the soil from the washing but also to suspend the “soil” it in the water so it doesnt go back on the washing,it’s then pumped out with the water.
Powder should be administeres as per the instructions depending on the water hardness.
I would certainly not assume the powder side of this issue is OK.
The deposit on the heater again could be an indication of this as it has failed in a short time.
BG

[Martin]

Re: bleckmann or thermowatt

I don’t hold with the ‘suds and air pockets’ theory. I appreciate these machines only wash with just a few litres of water but all the while that element remains well immersed in the stuff. Were that theory to have any credence at all then the internal fuses would blow and we’ve pretty well established that that is not the case here.

What is certain is this machine is stretched to the limit work wise, virtually used commercially and on very high temperatures every wash. That takes its toll on any heater and in truth they are really not up for the job. I’ve never known heaters to fail so consistently but then I’ve not come across a domestic machine used in this way before.

I’m thinking that £2,500 commercial Miele would be a great investment for our busybr. 😉

[busybr]

Re: bleckmann or thermowatt

Thank you gentlemen for your replies. All I can say about the powder is that in all my years I’ve only ever used brand-name big-box powders (I’ve twice used supermarket branded powder -many years ago- and the foam was horrific :eeek: )and that soiling on all laundry -be it domestic laundry or a wash full of cloths and mop-heads- is not at all heavy. It is the temperature at which the laundry is done at which is the important thing for me, as this is what is needed to sanitise my uniforms and the cloths.

It’s all very well for the ‘experts’ in such matters to say that a cloth can be sanitised at temperatures at above 75C if left in the water for a minimum of four minutes, but this of course does not allow for the fact that the fabrics in any front-loader are ever fully immersed in water for any length of time, hence why I do the longest cycle possible so as to ensure the hot water has saturated the cloths sufficiently.

What I remember most is that back in the day I had a Hoover “European Style” slimline toploader which I used for over three years soley for boil washing cloths and mop heads. It held a 5.5kg load and was used 3-4 times a week. It was still working perfectly well when I gave it away when I down-sized my home. I never had a moments problem with that little trooper.

Martin, such is the direction that my business is now taking, I will likely be expanding the service I provide even further, and to that end I am in the process of having a shed installed in the back garden, where I can once again have two washing machines fully installed and working. I need the extra space anyway, due to the amount of equipment I have to keep on standby (there’s no time to fix a vacuum cleaner the very second it breaks down, I have to reach in and collect another 😕 )

Before I even consider that specialist Meile washer, I’m going to give the “two domestic machine” set-up another go, as it worked for me for years on the past.

I feel kind-of excited in a strange way that I’ve introduced a scenario to you Martin which you’ve never come across before 😀 I know I’m not the only proprietor of a cleaning business who murders washing machines though. Still, as I said in another post, they (the washing machines) are nothing more than a tool of the trade, and it’s not the cost of the breakdown which hits me, it’s the ‘down time’ where I can’t keep my service on schedule.

[Martin]

Re: bleckmann or thermowatt

I believe the two domestic machine set-up is the most practical and logical approach that will work for you. Given that these modern day, supposedly energy efficient, machines take hours to complete a full 90 degree cycle then the time factor has to be an important consideration too. So with two machines you’re effectively halving the time it takes to do the job…….go for it! 😀

[busybr]

Re: bleckmann or thermowatt

Hi Martin

Well funnily enough (regarding time factors)…no. See, I’m not at all bad when it comes to all things domestic (it’s about all I am good at mind you 🙁 ) and planning ahead is something I have to do all the time to provide an effecient service. Thus, there is never a shortage of anything I need for work, I have 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} more cloths and mop heads than I ever need, and ensure that the dirty ones are all washed & dried long before they are needed. TBH I can’t get my head around this ‘takes too long’ mentality which my clients find so offensive about modern washing machines. Back in 1997 when I first started selling washing machines in a showroom, one of the key things we informed customers of was the fact that ‘shower system’ washing machines were efficient on water and electricity, but in turn needed far more time to do it’s cycle.

As I recall, it was not a big deal for people, or so they said. Quite how all of this has got lost in translation as the years have passed, I don’t know.

[Martin]

Re: bleckmann or thermowatt

I’m not sure what year the manufacturers shift away to ‘cold fill only’ machines was, but the loss of the hot water inlet represents a huge increase in electricity for those, like yourself, that need hot wash cycles. My 14year old Bosch (WFS4030) only fills with a few litres of water but because it fills with piping hot water on the 90deg cycle it completes the heat and wash part of the cycle quicker than a 30 deg cold fill cycle does.

Now the eggheads in whitecoats with their microscopes and test tubes would say that the energy required to replace that hot water is great than heated by direct immersion….no kidding Einstein? I’m far from convinced that to be true.

[busybr]

Re: bleckmann or thermowatt

Well, I go along with what you say Martin, but only if there is a good supply of hot water “on tap” (no pun intended). Personally, being shower-never-a-bath kind of guy, I’ve never been one for using immersion cylinders, and indeed most of my homes have had combi-boilers. So even in the days of H&C fill machines, I always used mine on a Y-peice from the cold water. Even with combi boilers, the washers have inexplicably been such a long way from the boiler to make using hot water a viable option. But if hot water is there to be had, I think you’re right.

[keepitsimple]

Re: bleckmann or thermowatt

Aabout 5-6 years ago I bought an LG machine, partly because I thought it was reasonable quality for the price, and the size of the drum gave it a fighting chance of possibly taking the volume of the advertised load (do some other makers use extremely heavy clothes when they “test” ?) Mainly, though,’cos it was one of the few I found with even then with hot and cold fill. Sadly, it only fills with hot to start with (on 60 and over). As soon as it has chucked the stuff around a bit and soaked up the water, it then tops up with cold ;o( I’m sure my hot water (gas) is a lot cheaper than leccy.

busybr – have you used Ariel professional “Hygiene” ? I’m using it at the moment, mainly because it was cheap at Makro and I’ve always assumed Ariel to be a good brand. It reckons to kill off 99.999{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of stuff like MRSA and e.coli (and others listed on the pack) at only 40 degrees after 10 minutes soak, dosed at 6g per litre in accordance with EN1276, whatever that means. Think it’s made by P&G, so I reckon it should be trustworthy.
Might be worth looking into ?

Edit – what I don’t know for sure is whether when they say “soak” ir means “submerged”. I interpret it as “saturated”.

[busybr]

Re: bleckmann or thermowatt

Hi there keepitsimple! Thanks for the suggestion of Ariel. I will look into that further. On the surface it sounds OK, but that I would have to follow it to the letter. Whereas a 60C would kill off what I need to, end of story. I could of course be cynical and say that P&G just want to sell more powder 😆 I am very frugal with the dosage of powders.

I have to say that I am dubious of many claims made by manufacturers as so often I feel they have been, well, dare I say it, wrong. I think I am just old-school at heart. But if I was to believe that washing detergents can work well in cold water or at 15C (even on a quick-wash :rolls: ) then why oh why is it that when I am ironing for people their laundry stinks to high heaven of damp, of B.O., of their perfumes, and of residue detergents.

My own washing never ever smells like that, but then I use long wash cycles and higher temperatures. Needless to say that when I’ve done laundry for clients, the comments have been along the lines of “My bed linen never smells so fresh as when you’ve done it”. 😆

[keepitsimple]

Re: bleckmann or thermowatt

60 degrees will kill stuff off ? I thought it had to be a bit over 80 to be certain. Having said that, all our clothes that will stand it are done at 60 anyway, and all the towels and bedlinen (all white cotton) as well as white tee shirts get a 95 blast. (Which is why I wanted a hot & cold fill) Mainly though, it’s to keep ’em white rather than anything else.

I only bought the Ariel stuff ‘cos it was on special and cheaper than all the other main brands at the time.

I doubt that a company like P & G would take any risks with what they claim, and I’d assume it has to be independently verified. The risk to their reputation, not to mention the potential financial risk, would be huge. 6g per litre doesn’t sound like a lot to me, given the low water usage of modern machines. If I remember, I’ll ask my Mum’s nursing home what they use in their laundry, as clearly everything they wash for residents won’t stand high temperatures.

Edit – just on your points about other folks’ washing – it’s probably some or all of:

stinky washing machine full of fungus, probably also with the detergent dispenser gobbed up with undissolved powder
not enough detergent
leaving the stuff piled up and damp for a week after washing it
Not pre-treating places like underarm areas if they need it
Leaving stuff sweaty and stained for ages before washing it
Insufficient rinses

Like yours, my washing is always as fresh as a mountain breeze, and there’s no great secret to it 😀

[busybr]

Re: bleckmann or thermowatt

Hi again

Yes, 60C is good for most washing, including killing off MRSA. I don’t dispute the claims by P&G but I think maybe I didn’t make it clearer what I meant – sorry. I mean that the instructions would need to be followed to the letter to get the level of ‘hygene’ which is being claimed. My response to that is using 60C would see to all that anyway. But someone like P&G whose core business relies on sales of goods could not afford to say that hotter water does the same, and as you suggest, not all fabrics could stand a 60C wash (though I must say a lot seem to be far more robust that we think – trial and error has proven that to me )

As for other peoples washing being dirty, I agree with all the possibilities you mention. However, having seen what people do in their homes, I think the bulk of the problem is that washing is damp and bacteria ridden before it’s even washed (as you suggested) and then it’s put into a dirty washing machine (dirty as a result of the next bit) then washed at low temperatures for a very short time. Add to this the fact that the machines are filled to capacity as well. :rolls:

The clothes must be teaming with bacteria by then, and are left to fester in the washing machine, until such time they are draped over rails and clothes horses, thus allowing the bacteria to flourish further. I have three ironing boards in my home; only one of them is for my laundry. The rest are for other peoples laundry. I couldn’t bear the idea of my laundry on a stinky ironing board.

Personally, I cannot see the point in having a nice hot shower and then drying off on a bacteria laden towel. Some ‘freshly washed’ towels stink like a school gym changing room. You’d not get me near them.

A basic understanding of the principles of how things work in the home has all but died with the generations of people who knew about it, and knew how to run a home. I’ve lost count of the people who have said “my laundry isn’t really what you’d call dirty” and “I mean we only sleep in the sheets, that’s all”. Ok… :rolls:

[keepitsimple]

Re: bleckmann or thermowatt

busybr wrote:
“my laundry isn’t really what you’d call dirty” and “I mean we only sleep in the sheets, that’s all”. Ok… :rolls:

“and the dog only joins us occasionally” 😉

[busybr]

Re: bleckmann or thermowatt

I cannot comment on that last point…disgusting as it is, my dogs are no strangers to my boudoir. :boops: In my defense, my dogs are of a breed where they don’t lose a single hair. I couldn’t have dog hairs in my bedroom :eeek:

[Author]

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