Bosch washer Exxcel WFO2865GB/01 brushes/spin issue

[IWANTBLUE]

Martin suggested that my Armature was buggered from the symptoms I mentioned on another thread so I figured to keep things neater I had better copy it in my own thread, here was my response…

OH 🙁 ….

I guess I’d better strip it out again and check then 🙁

Is there any check I can do from the plug/terminals? or is it strip it right out to check across the com bars individually?
I was going to replace the bearings while I had it out to change the brushes, but was worried about what I assume is the speed feedback circuit/tacho, as the wires were hairlike….. so I would have checked it out if I had, but as everyone says, when it’s your own, there’s a pressure on your shoulder suggesting it needs to be back together 😉
If I can’t do anything from the pins, I’ll strip it out tomorrow morning 🙁 I’ve got my multimeter here but no Megger, but I gather from your statement I’m not likley to need the Megger 🙁

Cheers(for the bad news….)

Nick

I have now checked the brushes and they are clearly in need of a lot more bedding in, they are contacting at only 1/4-1/3 of the face ? surely they should be cut at a better angle? I would say they have had about 3 wash cycles, and 10 spins of various speeds, I’ve checked the field windings I assume on 1-2 and 1-3 on the motor plug, both approx 7-8 ohms, then 4 and 5 are obviously the brush pins, but I’d already removed the brushes at the time ( 🙁 DOH!) 6-7 are the feedback pins I referred to above I suspect and these sit at approx 23ohms that lowers as the drum is rotated quicker, so that seems likely ok?

I’ll pop them back in and see if I can get winding readings from the brushes, but I guess I’m going to have to remove it to do it properly on the com to check the armature windings.. 🙁

hopefully a pic of the brushes and minimal contact point attached…
would you suggest I pre shape them or do they just need much more bedding in time and I’ve been impatient?

Any suggestions/steering gratefully received

to complete the symptoms/scenario from the previous post, it had stopped spinning, I replaced the brushes with UKWG brushes, and now it spins, but stops the spin and returns to 1 min at varying times depending on spin speed selected.

Martin if you look in, were you expecting a short, or blown coil as you suggested the armature was buggered? does either portray a specific symptom?

I can borrow a com stick I think but the com was quite clean after I cleaned it up with a fibreglass pen. with the slightest of score from the previous brushes, is the com stick a necessity really?

Thanks for any input, sorry for war and peace.

Nick.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwAw99Aj-Jqwd3NVb3dUVHkyLTg/edit?usp=sharing

Should have also said can anyone point me to the correct motor if Martins’ long range experienced diagnosis punt ends up being correct…

[Martin]

Re: Bosch washer Exxcel WFO2865GB/01 brushes/spin issue

IWANTBLUE wrote:Should have also said can anyone point me to the correct motor if Martins’ long range experienced diagnosis punt ends up being correct…

A replacement motor is HERE

[IWANTBLUE]

Re: Bosch washer Exxcel WFO2865GB/01 brushes/spin issue

Martin wrote:

IWANTBLUE wrote:
Should have also said can anyone point me to the correct motor if Martins’ long range experienced diagnosis punt ends up being correct…

A replacement motor is HERE

Many thanks Martin, kind of 😉

I’ve just shaped the brushes and about to pop them back in, is it possable to read the windings through the brushes/brush terminals? or am I wasting my time, and need to strip it out and test properly? I have to pop across the city to get the com stick, but if you think I’m better off just stripping it out as you suspect the armature is u/s???? I’ll do that first

Cheers, and appreciate the help,

Nick

[Martin]

Re: Bosch washer Exxcel WFO2865GB/01 brushes/spin issue

IWANTBLUE wrote:is it possable to read the windings through the brushes/brush terminals?

You should indeed get a reading across both brush terminals through the commutator. Though what it should read ohms wise I have no idea, sorry. 🙁

IWANTBLUE wrote:I have to pop across the city to get the com stick,

Worth a punt for sure.

By the way, couldn’t see your attached photo so have no clue what that was. You can upload photos direct from your photos library without messing with 3rd party hosting sites.

[IWANTBLUE]

Re: Bosch washer Exxcel WFO2865GB/01 brushes/spin issue

Ok, I gave up trying to do it all whilst fitted to the machine as the connector side brush spring/terminal just wouldn’t play ball 🙁

so, through the brushes I have 4.8 ohm even across every segment pair(via brushes) so I’m hopefull that’s still servicable…
I tried to measure between each pair(bar) side by side and that appears to be exactly 0.1 ohm, initially figured, that’s that then…… but it incrimentseach one as you go around, so I am now more hopefull that 0.1 per segment(bar) is correct and the accumulative result is 36/2=1.8ohm, the brushes are both approx 3ohms, however being in the holders you would only have resistance of thesmall secction from holder to com, but effectively unless something sounds completely off to you, or any other experts, I’m now hopeful it might be ok???

I tried uploading the pic of the brushes, but it was too big :9 I’ll try again..

Ok so I took the motor over to a mate and we ran the com stick , nice and de-glazed now, shaped the bushes and used a drill to attempt to bed them in, couple of re-emerys later and nice full face brush contact observed I’ve refitted it and it sounds soooo much better, it whines a bit but in a ‘good’ bedding in at high speed kind of way… All good then…..

Errm no 🙁 tried spin at 600 and yet again despite the sweet sounding contact, it still stopped after 6 mins(although i’m sure it was a lot longer than 6 mins, but thats naother story ….

Trying a wash and cycle(spin) etc. but I wondered if the spin cycle can tell there wasn’t any water ? so the sensor noted no water x2 and says no need for another run?? wishful thinking I know I know LOL.

so whilst I finished typing its just done a full60 degree wash which I’m assured only spins at 1000 on easy care despite being on 1400, so I’ll see how damp they are and try a 1400 if they still need a spin…

so it might be successful after all…. if anyone has any views on my theory I’d appreciate it anyway 🙂

[Martin]

Re: Bosch washer Exxcel WFO2865GB/01 brushes/spin issue

It’s worth noting that the ‘spin only’ cycle only spins at 800rpm max. It only spins for 3 or 4 mins tops!

[IWANTBLUE]

Re: Bosch washer Exxcel WFO2865GB/01 brushes/spin issue

OK, so I typed the update to war and peace and lost it somehow, so a somewhat abridged version and a couple of pics hopefully… couldn’t upload as the limit was tiny?? 256kb or so? so trusty old Photobucket to the rescue 🙂

Ref your 800rpm max, ours is a 1400 machine with 1200 as the max spin speed for spin only, 1400 is only available after cotton/linens wash, our usual ‘easycare’ does only use 800rpm, not the 1000, my missus believed(so I quoted)

so after a 60min easycare, and presumably 800rpm spin, the towels were damp/wet, a simple 1400 selected, but 1200max spin only cycle resulted in a smooth spin, and still dropped from 6 mins to 1 minute again…

I’m beginning to think this short cycle is because it knows there was no water left???

in any case the towels were completely satisfactory with regard to spin outcome, despite only one cycle, not the two expected in 11 mins….

are you confirming Martin that 3-4 mins (say 6 mins including a couple of tumble cycles, is the normal spin cycle? despite starting with 11 mins in the window??

cheers for your help again, and hopefully the photo links will be of use to other searchers/posters….

AS ALWAYS Turn off at the socket, and remove the plug before any testing, even though only dead testing.

Cheers, Nick

Red arrow denotes Not used pin on motor connector, and the pic of the brushes was the earlier attempt to show poor connection on new brushes… I flap wheeled the angle then used emery on a curved shaft of very similar diameter and ended up with what appeared to be full brush face contact.

[Martin]

Re: Bosch washer Exxcel WFO2865GB/01 brushes/spin issue

IWANTBLUE wrote:Ref your 800rpm max, ours is a 1400 machine with 1200 as the max spin speed for spin only, 1400 is only available after cotton/linens wash, our usual ‘easycare’ does only use 800rpm, not the 1000, my missus believed(so I quoted)

The SPIN ONLY programme selection I referred to is a shortened slow spin up to 800rpm max

IWANTBLUE wrote:are you confirming Martin that 3-4 mins (say 6 mins including a couple of tumble cycles, is the normal spin cycle? despite starting with 11 mins in the window??

Taken from the user manual…….

[IWANTBLUE]

Re: Bosch washer Exxcel WFO2865GB/01 brushes/spin issue

Sure I see that Martin I have the manual, but that says max spin speed available 1200 in spin only program, however I’m not worried about that, it’s defiantely spinning faster than 800 in spin only, and I’m happy with the results from spin only, so effectively the missus is happy, I’m Happy 😉

I am curious about the 3-4 mins bit you mentioned though, as I can find no ref to that in the manual, but it would make sense for what was happening in the spin only program, i.e. stopping earlier than the shown 11 mins….

so to clarify, I’m happy with the results of the shortened spin only program.
However (although she didn’t watch this this morning) last night the program spin only wound up to full speed, then slowed.. did a couple of slow tumble spins, the stopped at aprox 6mins, down to 1min, ending the cycle, but I say again, excellent results despite the short spin!!

So if this is ‘normal’ operation , my work here is done 🙂 and thanks for the added info….

whilst she is happy, if the short spin is not normal, and is indicative of a fault, I would still like to get to the bottom of it 🙂

as always, thanks for your time …

Nick

[Martin]

Re: Bosch washer Exxcel WFO2865GB/01 brushes/spin issue

How simple all this would be if only you have an insulation test meter to determine whether the motor AND the heater has an earth leak? Any earth leakage would explain the phenomenon. The reason the spin cycle times and speeds vary so dramatically is based on the micro processors ‘fuzzy logic’ (you might want to look that up?) that shuts down whenever an unbalanced load is detected. And a low earth insulation (of the motor or heater) will create sufficient inconsistency enough to cause that fuzzy logic to shut down.

An earth leak lower than 50 megohms will explain why you are troubled so by this. 😉

[IWANTBLUE]

Re: Bosch washer Exxcel WFO2865GB/01 brushes/spin issue

Thanks for the update, I have an insulation tester at work, but am on days off at the moment…
No issues with washing so would doubt the heater is at fault, and has been replaced in the machines lifetime…

The spin cycle does a complete 3-4 mins cycle every time, and gets rid of all of the required water so is a) working satisfactorily and b) seems unlikley to me that any earth leakage would only show up on the second potential spin cycle , rather than during the first?

so my engineers hunch would be that there isn’t an earth fault, but I’ll still check once I bring a meter home.

Cheers, Nick

[Martin]

Re: Bosch washer Exxcel WFO2865GB/01 brushes/spin issue

IWANTBLUE wrote:Thanks for the update, I have an insulation tester at work, but am on days off at the moment…
No issues with washing so would doubt the heater is at fault, and has been replaced in the machines lifetime…

How we in the trade enjoy such comments. So your doubt is OK, best ignore that then. 😀

IWANTBLUE wrote:The spin cycle does a complete 3-4 mins cycle every time, and gets rid of all of the required water so is a) working satisfactorily and b) seems unlikley to me that any earth leakage would only show up on the second potential spin cycle , rather than during the first?

Ditto my reply above. 😀

IWANTBLUE wrote:so my engineers hunch would be that there isn’t an earth fault, but I’ll still check once I bring a meter home.

You know best pal so I’ll leave the problem in your very capable hands. Bye!

[IWANTBLUE]

Re: Bosch washer Exxcel WFO2865GB/01 brushes/spin issue

What a strange combative reply Martin?
I hadn’t dismissed any of your information at any point? and had repeatedly thanked you for bothering to reply at all.

I clearly explained that I didn’t have a megger here with me at home and would check your suggestions once I had, yet you feel the need to be sarcastic?

you seem to have taken my personal ‘hunch or doubt’ that there is an earth fault as some sort of slight on you expertise?

So yet again, Thanks for your advice, but leave the sarcasm to someone that deserves it….

[Author]

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