Calling those who’ve had detergent training

[andy_art_trigg]

Miele and others say do not connect their washing machines to a water supply that has been softened through water softener systems. I understand this could cause over sudsing, but do we know of any other reasons why not? If you used reduced detergent quantities would it not be OK?

I suspect maybe the simple fact is that it’s just too hard to determine the correct dosage with artificially softened water but I wonder if anyone knows anything more on the subject?

[iadom]

Re: Calling those who’ve had detergent training

I would suspect that if you reduced the amount of detergent to prevent oversudsing due to ultra soft water , you would also reduce the amounts of the other detergent components below their effective level.

[andy_art_trigg]

Re: Calling those who’ve had detergent training

That’s it in a nutshell I reckon.

[legsthediver]

Re: Calling those who’ve had detergent training

Up here In Sunny North Wales we have EXTREMELY Soft water and the minimum amount of powder is required… I think Miele MUST be worried about Sudsing, Purely because of customer confusion on detergent doses.. Our local Supermarket sells approx 220 packs of de-calcifier EVERY WEEK ! THAT is either ignorance, confusion or pure stupidity.. You can’t blame Miele for covering their backs…..

[Martin]

Re: Calling those who’ve had detergent training

andy_art_trigg wrote:Miele and others say do not connect their washing machines to a water supply that has been softened through water softener systems

Andy,

Could you point us to where, in any manufacturers documentation, you found this statement?

[andy_art_trigg]

Re: Calling those who’ve had detergent training

I don’t have it to hand Martin, but Miele, Siemens, John Lewis all say the same.

[don]

Re: Calling those who’ve had detergent training

Martin wrote:
Andy,
Could you point us to where, in any manufacturers documentation, you found this statement?

Here you go.

Page 29 Miele W500 operating instructions says under the heading of Water softeners “A water softener can be used to cut down on the use of detergents in extremely hard water areas. Dispense according to the amount specified on the packaging. First add detergent and then the water softener. Use a quantity of detergent as for soft water. Miele do not recommend connecting the machine to a household water softener.

The next paragraph deals with using several components ie detergent, water softener and stain remover.

Don

[andy_art_trigg]

Re: Calling those who’ve had detergent training

Cheers Don.

I think the confusion arose because Miele (and others) use phrases like, “…(we) do not recommend connecting the machine to a household water softener” but forget to add the next sentence beginning, “This is because….”

People (mostly men) hate being told not to do something without an explanation why.

[iadom]

Re: Calling those who’ve had detergent training

andy_art_trigg wrote:

People (mostly men) hate being told not to do something without an explanation why.
Unless it’s the wife telling them. 😥 😆

[andy_art_trigg]

Re: Calling those who’ve had detergent training

iadom wrote:

andy_art_trigg wrote:

People (mostly men) hate being told not to do something without an explanation why.
Unless it’s the wife telling them. 😥 😆

Nah they still hate it – but just do it 😉

[Martin]

Re: Calling those who’ve had detergent training

don wrote: Miele do not recommend connecting the machine to a household water softener.

Thanks for that Don :tup:

As Andy says :-

andy_art_trigg wrote:I suspect maybe the simple fact is that it’s just too hard to determine the correct dosage with artificially softened water

I concur with that statement, but I wonder why they are so very specific in alienating “household water softeners” ?? Indeed many of Miele’s customers in hard water areas already have their homes fitted with these devices anyway, for all the many benefits they give, washing especially.

Those of us that have had the benefit of ‘soap powder & detergent training’ realise many of the quality brands include “Builders” in their product to offset water hardness. So whilst that is a benefit for washing results it does little for the machine in limescale build-up or prevention overall. That’s where the household water softener is needed. And by reducing the detergent quantity to the levels recommended by the detergent manufacturer for soft water, would surely give excellent results every time?

Oversuddsing is unlikely to happen where instructions are carefully followed. Even if that were to happen, Miele machines as with other top-brand makes include ‘over-sudsing’ sensors to extend the number rinses accordingly.

So in conclusion for them to not recommend household water softeners is simply a ‘cop-out’ lest they be brought to account I reckon. 🙄

[andy_art_trigg]

Re: Calling those who’ve had detergent training

My understanding is that if a house is fitted with a water softener system, it should not be connected to the drinking water supply. This is because the artificially softened water is not recommended for drinking as it’s lacking in important minerals and calcium.

http://www.triangularwave.com/f7.htm

I think in theory the washing machine and dishwasher should be able to be connected to the untreated mains supply used for drinking. It then begs the question what’s the point of installing an expensive water treatment system if you can’t treat drinking water, or the washing machine and dishwasher supply? There’s always the benefits in the bath, shower, imersion heater, sinks etc I suppose.

The whole water treatment issue is a minefield though and full of contradicting opinions.

[Turbo]

Re: Calling those who’ve had detergent training

I always thought the washing m/c manufacturers did not recommend water softners for fear of them not being set correctly therefore corroding the alloy drum shaft 😥 could be wrong 😥

[Author]

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