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Oops, looks as if we’ve touched a nerve again. 😈
I wonder if they’ll rethink given that I now know of two that have jacked it over the letter that was sent out?
K.
Re: CDA
We got the letter today and phoned CDA to tell them that we would not accept anymore calls. An hour later a fax came through for a cash call and the girl in the office did not know we had stopped CDA calls so called the customer to book. When she told the customer our labour rate the customer replied that CDA said that the max we could charge was £50.
Faxed the job back to CDA and heard nothing from them yet.
JohnRe: CDA
as this is the war room….read my questions I sent to Ian Kershaw today..
Dear Ian,
Having read the letter can I ask a few questions regarding its contents.1) Item 1 to 3.
As CDA are handling the initial call request, passing it through to us to book the call, do you agree it is impossible for either operation to weed out an incorrect installation?
At the point of finding an installation fault, the engineer will have removed the appliance from the housing, at considerable time and effort. Do you really want us to start negotiating whether the customer pays us at this point for what the customer will throw at us, is an installation fault caused by the installation fitter. As we are in the repair business, and not the debt collecting business, how do you intend to indemnify my company against customers who flatly refuse to pay?2) Item 5
From 1st June you intend to charge the customer directly. Can you confirm what you will charge the customer and what you intend to pay us for our labour? Please bear in mind that currently chargeable work passed is charged at our labour which is currently £58.75 inclusive of VAT.
3) Item 6
Can you confirm that the £69.00 fee that you expect us to charge a customer is plus or inclusive of VAT?
4) Items 7 & 8
Where CDA choose to supply free spares for their customers, DAR will provide the information available with the parts order. However if you try to charge us for spare parts used on your work we will withdraw from your network, period.
Best regards
Kevin Heath
Dar Rotherham
Hi Kevin1. You can rest assured that whatever legal responsibility we have to the consumer will always be fulfilled.
I would like to help any Engineer or Retailer resolve any issue with any of our products, however to clarify what we are responsible for regarding the consumer, this is the directive CDA are legally obliged to follow according to the Sales of Goods Act, Directive 1999/44/EC:
“Consumers are entitled to goods of satisfactory quality. If an item has a fault that is present at the time of sale the consumer can complain once it is discovered. Consumers cannot expect legal remedy in respect of:
Fair wear and tear, misuse or accidental damage, or if they decide they no longer want the item.”Under the regulations consumers can choose to request a repair or replacement. The Retailer can decline either of these if one is disproportionately costly in comparison with the other.
No mention of responsibility for installation is mentioned. However I have telephoned and asked, and I have been advised that we are not responsible for fitting or installation. If this is the cause of a product failing to perform, then we are not responsible for the repair.
I understand it is possible that an Engineer may be in a difficult situation of a consumer refusing to pay for a misinstallation call. However whilst you are not in the debt collecting business, neither am I in business to pay for other people’s mistakes. I cannot afford to be. I have suggested to our own engineers that we charge a call-out fee of £19 to any call we make where the problem is installation and not our responsibility. This is fair since identifying the problem takes a few minutes rather than the time it takes to fully repair a product. This has been tried and tested in many other industries and works perfectly well. In practice consumers are then more than willing to ask the Engineer to continue and fix the problem, and then pay for a full service call. If they are inclined they can then request a refund from their retailer or installer.
2. I will pay whatever rate has been agreed. If this is £58.75 then that is what you will get.
3. This is dependent on whether you are Vat registered or not. Obviously it is plus Vat if this is the case.
4. I am not sure what you are asking me here. Obviously we provide free parts under our guarantee. But we are entitled to ensure these parts are fitted to genuine calls and within our terms and conditions. If this is the case we will not charge you?
Regards
Ian
Ian Kershaw
Managing Director
The CDA Group LtdIt’s evident the guy does not answer all the points raised, but it has allowed Bridie and I to take the decision to withdraw from the CDA network effective from 1st June
Pure coincidence that date, by the way
😆Kevin
Re: CDA
I don’t, for obvious reasons, want to go in there too hard at the moment but that post by Kershaw is so open for attack it’s unreal. I think I’ll PM Rudi as that way it’s totally leftfield.
But the points that need answered are:
– Where is Kevin’s post on that thread, nobody has sussed that he didn’t post to it.
– The body of the post with regard to AIS was posted in 2003, AIS was not mentioned in the newer posts.
– Nobody mentioned Whirlpool or van stocks at all, where did that come from
– Who said anything about Caple?
– There was no room in that letter for any negogiation at all, it was a simple statement of how it will be with no room for feedback, so he’s trying to back out of it and save face as there’s no concilitary tone anywhere else
– The spares holding has quadrupled, does he not think that introducing new products at the rate that he is may be something to do with that? There’s also no indication on how long it’s taken for that to happen.
– He asks that we talk to him directly yet I have reports of him refusing to accept calls from his own agents
– If you actually analyise the new warranty T&C there’s a coupeof things there that are probably illegal and, even if not technically, you can bet your ass that Trading Standards will not be at all happy about them
Basically he’s not done himself any favours there at all and left himself wide open for further grief if people even stop for a moment to think about it. TBH, treating his core customer base in the way I think he’s about to may well cost him very, very dearly.
We did tell them, didn’t we Kev and so did John and that’s the primary reason John left, because of this. 😕
K.
Re: CDA
Ian Kershaw wrote:I understand it is possible that an Engineer may be in a difficult situation of a consumer refusing to pay for a misinstallation call. However whilst you are not in the debt collecting business, neither am I in business to pay for other people’s mistakes. I cannot afford to be. I have suggested to our own engineers that we charge a call-out fee of £19 to any call we make where the problem is installation and not our responsibility. This is fair since identifying the problem takes a few minutes rather than the time it takes to fully repair a product. This has been tried and tested in many other industries and works perfectly well. In practice consumers are then more than willing to ask the Engineer to continue and fix the problem, and then pay for a full service call. If they are inclined they can then request a refund from their retailer or installer.
He just doesn’t get it does he?
If he requests that we attend then the responsibility to pay for that call rests with CDA, not the customer. If CDA want to try to recoup their costs then that’s their affair, not ours.
As for £19, he’s having a laugh surely?
K.
Re: CDA
I read Kershaws posting and fired back at once, without even opening this thread. I think I might have saved Rudi a job in that.
I Haven’t had a letter from CDA, in fact no correspondence at all. therefore I cannot comment on either way. I can comment though on the events that fell into place recently, and it seems the concur with the gist of this letter you have all had.
If Rudi is part of their network, or has access to the letter, who knows? (No I’m not fishing to find his identity)
Alex
Kev did post to the thread, I missed the first page of the thread. 😕
And no Alex, I’m not telling you or anyone else who Rudi is. 😉
K.
Re: CDA
Interesting that this should kick off after JH has left their organisation…. Loss of a steadying hand perhaps?
Chris.
Re: CDA
The letter arrived in a polythene A4 envelope containing the new CDA appliance catalogue. Some agents could easily have thrown it to one side not knowing that a letter of such importance was enclosed??
JohnRe: CDA
Penguin45 wrote:Interesting that this should kick off after JH has left their organisation…. Loss of a steadying hand perhaps?
Basically John was an object in the way of all this as he strongly resisted it because he thought, like us, that the agents were getting shafted. So he left.
Personally I feel that gives a measure of the man.
Very good point John, I didn’t pick up on that. I suspect you could be right as it did just look like a brochure mailout. 😕
K.
Re: CDA
johnmac11 wrote:The letter arrived in a polythene A4 envelope containing the new CDA appliance catalogue. Some agents could easily have thrown it to one side not knowing that a letter of such importance was enclosed??
JohnYes it was buried in a catalogue.
Thanks for that.
Alex
Arrived today, with Deltecs name address on ! And I have to pay them 19.00 for the priveledge of doing chargeable calls, missed that in the thread ! Think i’m going to have to speak to mr. Kershaw.
Re: CDA
Well, I have just resigned from CDA network, sent the email a few minutes ago. That means there’s work in Sheffield available 😆
I’ve said I’ll finish any open jobs, don’t send any new ones…..Kevin
Just received my letter, I am carefully considering my options after having a heated discussion with another work provider yesterday. I will not be charging a customer £19 for a installation fault, it costs as much to knock on a door whether you do a repair or not. TO charge £19 he is subsidising his engineers by his sales side something a repair company can not do. We charge CDa customer £60 for an electric repair more if gas or Whirlpool , if they want a piece of this it should be over and above what we have our prices set at.
mmmmmm needs more thought
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