Dishwasher installation fault?

[Kirk]

I have been having quite a few calls to a new housing site involving Belling DW. This machine seems to have less room at the back for the pipes so they are cutting holes through the bottom of the sink unit at the back and feeding it up the back then over into the unit. The DW can’t be removed without an extreme amount of time and work,about an hour on each one I have told the customer I will not work on it again unless it is made accessable am I right?
The other problem on two occasions they have fitted it in to a 13 amp socket and to get the DW in far enough having to push the back panel in.
This has resulted in the insulation melting and the plug overheating and burning the plug,the builder claims that the plug is at fault! I wonder what temperature they are supposed to take? I would have thought pushed that hard and against hot metal 70deg on a hot wash not safe?
Looking forward to your comments who is right and wrong.
Thanks Kirk

[ChrisR]

Re: Dishwasher installation fault?

Hi All.

I do quite a lot of work on intergrated dishwashers and it never ceases to amaze me how some of them are installed or thrown in would be a better description.

I`ve seen unbelieveable installations where its took longer to remove and then re-install the appliance than the time its took to repair the bloody thing.

Getting back to your question Kirk,yes your right mate.You should charge extra if its taking you loads of time to remove or access the appliance.

I do but I always tell the customer before.

As regards the plug problem,then thats installation again really or you might think the sparkeys would put the socket inside the cupboard,but its not their problem is it!.

Regards. Chris.

[kwatt]

Re: Dishwasher installation fault?

That would probably be a Brandt in disguise then. 😉

As a general rule, if I cannot get an appliance out in under ten minutes or there is a risk of damage to teh appliance or customer’s property then I’d walk away from it. As far as I am concerned, in those sircumstances, the appliance has not been installed in a manner that leaves it accessible for service and I will politely explain to the customer why, most customer’s understand and usually acknowledge what they’re being told. There are however those that do not.

Why do I do this?

Simple, years of bitter, bitter experience working with builders and some real idiot kitchen fitters who give absolutely no thought whatsoever to the poor sucker that has to follow behind and get the thing back out, they see it as a permanent fixture. Most don’t even seem to bother reading the installation instructions. So, from that experience I have learned that the best possible way to deal with such situations is to have a set of giudlines and stick by them from the outset. That means that when you walk onto a site and the half wits have tiled up to the plynth you walk away on the FIRST visit then everyone knows what the score is and it’s resolved one way or another for the future. I’m sorry, but with a lot of builders you have to be cruel to be kind.

The same goes for kitchen fitters, most of them soon get the message after THEY have the cost and hassle to go back and rectify the installation. As I am fond of telling some of the local ones, we’re there to repair the appliance not strip the kitchen down to get to it and if they woudl liek to pay us the extra labour charges we’ll gladly do it. Most seem to decline for some reason. 😉

As for the plug top, well there’s an interesting one. IIRC building regulations are a bit vauge on that point and i have seen them installed as you describe and, if they try to install Whirpool (or badged up versions) of the under-counter integrated jobs they’ll be left with them sticking out if they install so. What I always ask for if possible, is that any integrated appliance is installed to a switched spur, the switch above the worktop so that the customer can isolate the appliance should the need arise. After all, let’s say you get an overfill fault on the washer and the appliance locks into a fill, power off on the front doesn’t work… how does the customer switch it off? If the casing goes live, how does an eighty year old (not you Martin ;)) get in and switch the power off to the appliance? It’s these little things that are pennies at the build stage to put in place but can save so much hassle later.

Of course, if memory serves me correctly, all appliances must now be supplied with a molded plug under EU legislation but all integrated appliances used to be supplied with bare wires. That only adds to the confusion.

I could go on and on for hours on this subject but I’ll shut it. 😀

K.

[Kirk]

Re: Dishwasher installation fault?

Thanks for both your input,my problem lies in the builders head office wanting a report into why a moulded plug melted? I put it down to the adverse heat from the dishwasher being forced against it. I don’t want to fall out over this as it is a Stoves contract but I still have look after myself and wanted to make sure I was in the right.
So what temerature would adversely affect a plug, of course it could have been badly wired in the socket and that is where th heat came from.

Thanks Kirk

[eastlmark]

Re: Dishwasher installation fault?

If the plug has melted it is defo a faulty socket, no way would the working water temperature in the dishwasher be anywhere near hot enough to melt a plug. Are you sure the plug has melted, not just the sticky insulation coated on the back of the dishwasher stuck on the plug top? This can appear like burning. I have had whole plugs embedded in that stuff which can disconnect the if the dishwasher is moved slightly or unpluging itself totally when the dishwasher is pulled out.

[Kirk]

Re: Dishwasher installation fault?

The live pin on the plug had burnt and of course the plug was covered in the goo. With the pin burnt as far as I was concenred it was a faulty socket and did not go any further though the builder is.
Kirk

[Dave_Conway]

Re: Dishwasher installation fault?

Your original conclusion of a poorly wired socket is almost certainly to blame.

The live terminal screw probably wasn’t tightened enough, I’ve seen it many times. Electricians wiring in a whole load of sockets, spurs and outlets while under pressure to get the job done quick, recipe for disaster.

Dave.

[streetlighter]

Re: Dishwasher installation fault?

Hi all
Do any of you you see any probs with loose plug top fuse holder clips ❓
We had a whole batch of electra’s in the early 90’s where we had to go out and replace the plug tops on hundreds of them due to loose grip on the fuse in the plug top. (well they were merloni’s)
But I agree, I have seen loads of these. If you loosen the socket the live wire falls out ( switch of mains first, need I say it, but you never know who’s reading this do you? )
Also what make were the socket outlets there is some real cr*p out there.

paul

[Dave_Conway]

Re: Dishwasher installation fault?

streetlighter wrote:switch of mains first, need I say it, but you never know who’s reading this do you?

It’s Ok Paul, only trade can see the this forum, the public forums however are a different ball game, where we have to be very carefull what advice we give.

streetlighter wrote:Also what make were the socket outlets there is some real cr*p out there.

Dunno, probably some import sh*te the developer bought for next to nothing on a “good deal” 😉

Dave.

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