Faulty 8702 flooded our downstairs flat

[admin]

I am NOT a happy chappy! We bought a new 8702 and after test use worked fine. Came back and opened it to put washing in – it was half full of water and water poured out, went through the ceiling and ruined all decoarating downstairs! We hoped it was a one off, and maybe my mistake, but it has done it again, when tenants used it! It seems to fill up by itself whilst not in use. My common sense says a valve in the machine that stops water coming in from the mains is faulty, but OBVIOUSLY this whole affair has implications. Firstly it must be repaired if not replaced (engineer caoming Friday) and what about this damage caused by the faulty machine. I expect the machine company to pay for all the repairs – why should my insurance go up because of their faulty machine!
Any thoughts very welcome

[Dave_Conway]

Re: Faulty 8702 flooded our downstairs flat

May I ask who installed the appliance ?

The reason I ask is that it may well be that the drain hose is not positioned correctly and if it’s connected to the sink trap then it may well back drain in to the machine from the sink.

If that is the case then it’s the installers that are at fault and not the manufacturer. It’s highly unlikely (but possible) that a new inlet valve would be letting water pass.

Those are really the only two possibilities.

Dave.

[admin]

Re: Faulty 8702 flooded our downstairs flat

Thanks for the swift reply Dave,

I used the machine, watched the whole cycle and it worked perfectly – emptied no problem. I left the machine, and came back a few days later, and opened the door, only to find that, whilst being turned off it had filled itself. As you say, I feel it has to be an inlet valve fault. Both times it has been used (watched, without problem – no washing or powder, just tested both times), turned off, then come back to after a few days it has filled (half full) with absolutely clean water.
Presuming this is the fault, where do I do with redecorating recompense?

[admin]

Re: Faulty 8702 flooded our downstairs flat

Oh, the company was Halsall Heating, this was a brand new renovation of a property done to the highest standards, no fly-bopy’s were used

[Dave_Conway]

Re: Faulty 8702 flooded our downstairs flat

Anonymous wrote:As you say, I feel it has to be an inlet valve fault.

I didn’t, I said it’s more likely to be the waste hose problem, which won’t effect the function of the appliance at all, only fill it with water when not in use. Although if it is clean, then it is likely to be the valve. Wait and see what the engineer discovers on Friday.

Easy way to find out is turn the taps off that supply it and see what happens (I would suggest this anyway, just in case).

As far as compensation etc goes, I can’t advise on this I’m afraid, that is best discussed with MFI and the installers.

Dave.

[clivejameson]

Re: Faulty 8702 flooded our downstairs flat

Have known a sticky vavle on a new appliance letting water by invariably caused by a foreign body getting in to it, and usually through new or altered plumbing which hasn’t been flushed before the appliance was connected.
Turn the machibe supply tap off straightaway to prevent futher damage until the problem is sorted and get the manufacturer to deal with it…they will simply replace the vavle to cure the problem.
If you are looking to have the damage paid for i would suggest you go for the manufacturer, although if they decide the fault was caused by the plumbing then you may have a fight on your hands unfortunately.

Clive

[admin]

Re: Faulty 8702 flooded our downstairs flat

Thanks Dave, and Clive,

I can confirm the problem. Just been down to check on the machine. I tested it this afternoon, all working fine. It had then been left until 7pm -some 5 hours turned off. I carefully looked inside, and opened the door – 2 inches of standing water had appeared. I think it confirms a valve problem.
I also found out the engineer can come tomorrow,so will just leave the machine, and he’ll see the water and I’ll explain the situation over the past week or so.
I appreciate your advice, Dave and Clive and will let you know what transpires tomorrow.

[admin]

Re: Faulty 8702 flooded our downstairs flat

Engineer arrived this morning – nice chap. We discussed the problem, and informed me that all manuals ‘advise’ turning off the water supply feeds after every use to guard against water pressure in excess of 10 bar pressure which will cause water to leak in past the inlet valve (and also to guard against any such claim arising, me thinks). Water pressure in my area is between 3.5 and 5 bar after talks with installers, (and dismissed a water pressure here of 10 bar as ridiculous)
The same washer downstairs did not suffer from the problem however this one upstairs did, both upstairs and downstairs, hence shows a valve problem as also the pressure upstairs will be less than downstairs.
I’m leaving the washer downstairs, connected now for a few days, unsued to see if the same problem with replaced inlet valves occurs. We shall observe…

[kwatt]

Re: Faulty 8702 flooded our downstairs flat

Hi,

Valves on washers are really, really dumb things as a general rule and, in that appliance, they really are simple on/off affairs. They have two positions, fully open (energised) and fully closed (not energised so it’s a “fail-safe”) so there are really only two options for failure. Either the valve is energised and it fails to open (far more common) or it fails in the open position (very uncommon).

In that past few years and literally hundreds of repairs I can recall one instance of a valve being failed open as they seem designed to “fall” closed effectively if power is removed as it’s a simple electromagnetic valve and so gravity does it’s work at that point.I can only recall one in the last five years that was passing a bit of water.

The valves in this appliance are like that and to get one passing a little water would be, to say the very least, nothing short of a miracle IMO and I’d be looking as Dave pointed out, for the machine backfilling off the waste as that’s a far more likely explanation for the problem. So much so I’d offer good odds that the machine’s drain is connected to a spigot off the sink waste. 😉

K.

[Martin]

Re: Faulty 8702 flooded our downstairs flat

Anonymous wrote:and informed me that all manuals ‘advise’ turning off the water supply feeds after every use

Now that’s a point, that indeed most if not all manufacturers state in the user instruction booklets supplied with every machine, to turn off the water (and power) after each use! Thereby issuing a ‘hidden disclaimer’ against any such eventualities such as in this case 🙁

Martin

[dpm]

If indeed it *was* a faulty valve, could it be made available for independant inspection? If, for example, debris was found underneath the valve seat, examination would prove whether it was from the valve (eg manufacturing residue), or from the pipework- in which case the plumber would be liable.
I presume the engineer did not disconnect the outlet hoses and check for leakage through the valve before replacing it?

[admin]

Re: Faulty 8702 flooded our downstairs flat

Au contraire Ken…i have seen quite a number of valves leak by particularly on washer dryers where the dryer inlet valve has a flow restrictor preventing a full flush of the valve when its on.
They are simple devices really…when the coil is energised it magnetically lifts a plunger to reveal a small pinhole in the diaphragm. This allows water to seep through equalising the pressure on both sides of the diaphragm causing it to float off its seat and let the water past and around its edges.
When the coil is de-energised a spring returns the plunger to cap the pinhole and the inlet water pressure then forces the diaphragm back down onto its seat to close off the flow.
Therefore the higher the water pressure the more positive they are in their action but if a foreign body gets trapped under the edge of the diaphragm then water can seep past it.
The maximum pressure rating quoted is simply the sheer pressure required to cause catastrophic failue i.e. the valve simply bursting wide open.
The solution to the initial query is simply to replace the valve IMO…as to reclaiming damages well pragmatism has a part to play. The manufacturers would most likely just wear the claim as the vavle could be deemed to be faulty by any measure applied…they do come with a filter which failed to stop a damaging foreign object from entering after all.

Clive

[clivejameson]

Re: Faulty 8702 flooded our downstairs flat

The previous post twas me btw 😉

Clive

[sparkey]

Re: Faulty 8702 flooded our downstairs flat

Just a general observation regarding water valves passing water when machine is not in use.

This is more likely to happen when water pressure is too LOW or the filling hose is squashed behind the machine, The inlet valve requires sufficient pressure behind the diaphram to hold it closed, too low and it will weep.

It therefore follows that higher pressures will hold the diaphram firmly closed with no weeping posible UNLESS there is something under the seating as previously advised.

Regards
Sparkey

[Author]

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