Fillers in Powders/Tablets

[liberatordeluxe]

Perhaps someone can hopefully explain to me about the fillers in washing powder and why manufacturers choose not to use water soluble materials?

If they are not water soluble where do they actually go whilst washing clothes? I assume they get stuck in the sump or outer tub and accumulate? For this reason I have always used liquids with a limescale and detergent remover on a 90C wash every month. I haven’t the patience to dissolve powder then sieve the fillers out. A test someone told me you can do is: Dissolve a teaspoonful of powder in a glass jar in water cold or warm you will notice the insolubles settle to the bottom of the jar, is this Sodium Sulfate or Zeolite residue?

Hope someone can help.

[liberatordeluxe]

Re: Fillers in Powders/Tablets

Anyone???????????????????

[kwatt]

Re: Fillers in Powders/Tablets

You need to talk to one of the chemists at the detergent manufacturers as what you’re asking is really beyond our scope.

K.

[liberatordeluxe]

Re: Fillers in Powders/Tablets

Thanks I have tried asking them but they are not interested.

I will just buy Ariel Liquid format as I know its very concentrated and once a month do a 90C wash with limescale and detergent remover. Ariel liquids contain anti foaming agents however the Persil liquids contain none and I won’t be buying Persil or Surf anymore after useless customer service from Unilever. Took a load of Persil back to the shop today for a refund on principle!

As a consumer I get absolutely sick to death of these detergent makers using bulking agents. Why can’t we have concentrated powders with 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} active ingredients? Until then I will steer clear of powders and tablets for washers and dishwashers.

Its funny as some washer engineers recommend powder and some recommend liquid but I will stick to liquid but have to obviously do more high temperature washers.

Thanks for trying to help though.

[kwatt]

Re: Fillers in Powders/Tablets

liberatordeluxe wrote:Why can’t we have concentrated powders with 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} active ingredients? Until then I will steer clear of powders and tablets for washers and dishwashers.

I can give you one very sound reason….

Lots and I do mean LOTS of people overdose constantly.

It’s becoming a bigger problem again as more concentrated detergents are introduced because people simply don’t care, they just whack in whatever they feel like. Then often blame the machine when it’s got not a single thing to do with the machine at all.

Case in point…

http://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/help/fix- … hines.html

And a myriad of other issues such as smells, corroded drum spiders and more are caused by people’s refusal to adapt to new technologies (even although they say they want them) or to learn how to use the products properly.

Machine manufacturers are under huge pressure from governments and consumers to make more efficient machines, so they do. Detergent manufacturers are under pressure to move ever more products, so they do.

Thing is, they all never talk to one another.

I can’t remember seeing the dose instructions on a pack of detergent changing in all the time I’ve been in this business and yet, in that same time, the technology in the appliances has altered quite significantly and the detergent formulations have changed countless times.

So, the question you should be asking is, why hasn’t the dose instructions altered?

But you are wrong, you still need a bleach containing detergent for whites and lights, liquid will not do the job correctly. Okay for colours but not whites.

K.

[liberatordeluxe]

Re: Fillers in Powders/Tablets

@ K Watt Can’t I just add liquid bleach like Ace? That has hydrogen peroxide in. I really can’t stand powders simply because they don’t fully dissolve. I have a photo I took of all the fillers from a pack of persil colour tablets, despite pouring boiling hot water on them to make them dissolve they just don’t. Which makes me wonder where does the undissolved detergent go to? The sump, stuck around the outer tub I guess.

Here is the doage directions for Ariels ‘Clean and Compact’ liquid

Normal Soil: Soft 35ml, Medium 50ml, Hard 60ml
Heavy Soil: Soft 60ml, Medium 75ml, Hard 90ml

Now despite living in a hard water area I can tell you that 60ml is way way too much and won’t rinse out properly. So I put in 30ml and clothes come out cleaner and don’t stink of detergent.

I never thought I would say it after always using Persil but Ariel is much better for rinsing now since they bought out this new liquid I use and the customer service I would give 10/10 at Ariel whilst Persil 0/10 nearly an hour I was kept waiting so in my opinion I rather give my money to P&G who actually care about their customers.

[kwatt]

Re: Fillers in Powders/Tablets

I certainly wouldn’t add raw bleach.

Think about it.

Put some domestos or whatever in your sink and run hot water onto it, what happens?

Asides which you seriously risk damage to many modern machines as they are not designed for that. Who bleaches clothes these days? When was the last time anyone saw instructions on bleaching or dyeing for an automatic washing machine?

You also forget that modern detergents are not designed to have water simply poured over them, cold, warm or hot. They are designed to work on a temperature curve and with agitation so you’re asking the detergent to work outside its design parameters in your experiment as well.

They do all break down eventually but it can take several hours depending on the conditions. Just that some are better than other in doing so.

K.

[liberatordeluxe]

Re: Fillers in Powders/Tablets

Well you know what your talking about and I trust what your saying as opposed to detergent makers.

Which powders then are best to stick to and best for breaking down?

My test then proves nothing about detergents not being water soluble then?

By the way I meant oxygen based bleaching agent hydrogen peroxide. No way would I put chlorine in a washing machine, would rot the seals and hoses so I am told.

[kwatt]

Re: Fillers in Powders/Tablets

Ariel or Persil have no issues if dosed correctly for the machine, load, soil level and water hardness. Get one wrong, it’ll go wrong. Usually not badly but wrong all the same and it does involve some trial and error. That applies every time the formulation changes as well.

I use Ariel so do any number of staff , some with skin problems and none have any issues.

K.

[liberatordeluxe]

Re: Fillers in Powders/Tablets

Are you talking about the Ariel and Persil powders? The powders all have anti foam ingredients whilst the liquids do not especially Persil ‘Small and Mighty’ How I know is I checked the Unilever website.

I have used Surf, Daz, Almat, Fairy, Bold, Persil, Tesco, Asda, Sainsburys, Simply, Ecover, Method, Halo Non Bio. I think I have tried the lot lol

I have very sensitive skin but Ariel biological never given me a rash. The non biological theory is marketing guff as I think you pointed out in one of your posts on another thread.

I don’t think I have any more questions for you know except does the branded detergents contain limescale protection and anti corrosion ingredients? I emailed Marks and Spencer and they don’t contain any ingredients to protect the machine. You have convinced me that powders are better from what you say. Will steer clear of the liquids then as from memory never had problems before all this liquid came onto the market. Ill keep things simple.

[Martin]

Re: Fillers in Powders/Tablets

liberatordeluxe wrote: Will steer clear of the liquids then as from memory never had problems before all this liquid came onto the market.

At last! After all the various questions on detergents and, like the guy in Pygmalion…”I think he’s got it…….!” 😉

[kwatt]

Re: Fillers in Powders/Tablets

liberatordeluxe wrote:I don’t think I have any more questions for you know except does the branded detergents contain limescale protection and anti corrosion ingredients?

Why would they?

You have builders that, when dosed correctly, will latch onto any calcium in the water or a good bit of it and take it away. The reason being that it impairs the wash result.

Which is why the likes of Calgon is a joke IMO, just another way to lever more money out of people’s fear.

Limescale build up in a machine is rarely a problem where a proper detergent is used in the correct dose and about the worst that happens other than in very extreme cases is a popped wash heater.

Likewise, why would corrosion be an issue?

The heater is stainless in all cases I’ve seen so as to resist stuff building up on them and allow good heat transfer but, to prevent corrosion. The drum is stainless of varying qualities with the only weak link being the alloy drum spider in most there.

The tank is stainless in good machines, the odd enamelled tub but that’s rare these days with the penny pinching in the industry and the vast bulk are poly-carbonate tubs. Two out of three don’t rust, the other you hardly ever see.

So why would anyone bother with the hassle or expense of anti-corrosion components?

Where the alloy drum spiders fail it is invariably down to use, overdosing mainly or the constant use of low temperatures, liquids, poor hygiene (as in not doing a maintenance wash) and so on. You can’t combat people not using the machine or the detergent properly other than try to educate.

For us that’s an issue because there’s already a fault or, more accurately a complaint, from the owner and we have to try to tell them something that they are usually extremely unwilling to accept… that it’s their fault, not that of the appliance.

K.

[Andy jones]

Re: Fillers in Powders/Tablets

Also why aren’t the detergent suppliers giving better advise to customers about correct dosage. I find that even with heavily soiled clothing a 1/4 of a cap of liquid is perfect to clean them. I then go to a retired couple complaining of smelly washing machines that are using 4 times the amount I use and their clothes aren’t dirty. Just a matter of freshening up. Then they have to do numerous amounts of service washes to try to clean their machines

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[liberatordeluxe]

Re: Fillers in Powders/Tablets

I have never bought Calgon and it is marketing guff IMO too but thought Id ask.

I can’t believe how many products are on the market i.e. liquids and liquid-tabs, you would think the manufacturers wouldn’t make products that were not good but its all down to profit as usual.

[Author]

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