F&P MW051-U – error 40 + can’t get inner drum out

[scotth]

Hi,

Sorry about the essay… I thought it might save a few questions later on. I have a Fisher & Paykel SmartDrive 051 that intermittently fails to spin. The bowl twitches in each direction as if it is “trying” to go. The diagnostics give an error 40, which from searching the forums is a “bowl disengage” error.

I’ve checked and found that the bowl is definitely engaged – I can easily lift and disengage it. The water gets pumped out quickly and I can hear the pump start sucking in air once the bowl is empty. The bowl seems to rotate reasonably freely when I move it by hand. I’ve taken the rotor out from underneath and everything looks good – no signs of water damage or corrosion. There’s no grease sprayed around.

I suspect that the microprocessor “looks” for the inertia of the bowl as the sign that the bowl is engaged. I guess it briefly pulses the motor in each direction and then uses the hall effect sensor on the motor to check that the inertia of the bowl makes the motor run on for half a revolution or so. If the bowl is still disengaged, the motor will just move the agitator + clothes and not the whole bowl, so as soon as power is removed, the motor will stop rotating.

I’ve tested this theory by (don’t try this at home kids) bypassing the cover open switch and rotating the bowl a little further by hand as it pulsed in each direction prior to spinning. This results in the spin cycle starting and running normally every time (yay!).

I’m now trying to get the inner bowl out to take a look and make sure no clothes are stuck under it or anything like that. I’ve removed the top deck and the agitator without any problems. I’ve also removed the three screws and light green coloured cover around the spindle inside the inner bowl. From other posts, if I lift the inner bowl sharply, it should come out. Mine doesn’t. There’s a white coloured plastic collar on the splined drive shaft with gear teeth on it (it “drives” the bowl assembly when it is down). The collar/gear seems to stop the inner bowl lifting off the shaft. I’ve tried repeatedly heaving the inner bowl up and it may have shifted the collar a bit, but I’m scared of damaging the washer’s suspension or something else if I get vicious with it. Do I need an automotive style puller tool here? If it’s this hard to take off, how do I get it back on again?

Any assistance would be gratefully received.

[Penguin45]

Re: F&P MW051-U – error 40 + can’t get inner drum out

The collar should be retainer with three screws. Remove them, then the collar. Then try lifting it clear.

Code 40 can be caused by over-soaping leading to a “suds lock” of the water level control system – the machine can think it’s full when it isn’t.

Regards,
Penguin45.

[scotth]

Re: F&P MW051-U – error 40 + can’t get inner drum out

Thanks for the reply Penguin45.

I don’t think it’s a “suds lock” problem. I have put a few loads of washing through by manually wringing the clothes out each time the machine stops at the spin cycle and the problem persists. If it was a problem with over-soaping, this would probably have cleared it? I can blow through the plastic pipe that senses the water level, so it’s not blocked or gummed up. Also, I’m using the same brand and quanties of detergent that I’ve been using for nearly 12 years.

Here’s a photo of the part that’s stopping the inner bowl from lifting out:

http://sholmes.gallery.netspace.net.au/album01/20070908_01_2

[scotth]

Re: F&P MW051-U – error 40 + can’t get inner drum out

Ok, the inner drum is out after a liberal dose of WD-40 and some brute force. 👿 The stainless steel ring on the underside of the white plastic collar/gear thingy doesn’t look worn. The pump is clear of any obstructions and there are no foreign objects trapped under the inner drum.

With the inner bowl removed and the motor removed, the drive shaft is a bit hard to turn by hand – there’s quite a bit of friction there. Is this normal? It turns smoothly and without any noises, so it might be just the rubber seal and the fact that the shaft doesn’t give me much mechanical advantage when I turn it.

The error 40 is looking like a bit of a mystery.

[scotth]

Re: F&P MW051-U – error 40 + can’t get inner drum out

Still trying to get to the bottom of this won’t spin / error 40 issue.

When I turn the bowl slowly by hand, I can feel the motor “cogging”. There’s a little resistance and if you turn the bowl very slowly, it’s almost impossible to get it to rotate smoothly – as in, it sort of jumps from one position to the next. I had a play with a new F&P washer the other day, and it doesn’t behave like this.

Is this normal for the older Fisher & Paykel machines? It’s the same with the motor cable unplugged from the controller, but goes away if the rotor is removed. Could the stator have a shorted turn?

I really need a “known good” machine of the same model to compare with!

[alexGS]

Re: F&P MW051-U – error 40 + can’t get inner drum out

It’s quite eerie to read through old threads and wonder if a problem was ever solved.

I reckon the bowl was sticking on the splines (mine pulled apart easily), maybe the bearings were stiff/crooked, or maybe the hall effect sensor was at fault.

FWIW I read on a wind turbine-making website (there’s a number of them) that the current-model F&P motors are ‘de-cogged’. That is, there isn’t the ‘cogging’ that most of the motors give. I had never heard the term ‘cogging’ before, I would have called it ‘notchiness’. 😉 It’s never a problem for a washing machine, but a bit of a problem for a wind turbine – prevents it starting in low winds (but then again, probably not much point in a wind turbine if the wind isn’t strong enough to overcome the ‘cogging’.

-Alex

[kiwireeferman]

Re: F&P MW051-U – error 40 + can’t get inner drum out

When turning the bowl or drive shaft by hand you are generating electricity. The permanent magnets are passing the motor coils, and so the rotation will not be smooth.
The only way to check for drag would be to remove the rotor and repeat the exercise.

Pretty sure FC40 will end up being a stator problem. Check for cracks in the plastic hub and/or can you get any racking movement of the stator on its center mounts. You could try replacing the circular metal plates that clamp the stator. Yours will most likely be the earlier ones.

[scotth]

Re: F&P MW051-U – error 40 + can’t get inner drum out

alexGS wrote:It’s quite eerie to read through old threads and wonder if a problem was ever solved.

The machine is functioning now, but the problem was never really solved. I used the washer for a while by just manually turning the bowl each way to get the spin cycle started. After a few weeks of doing this, the problem disappeared and the machine has (touch wood) worked perfectly since.

It’s a weird one. I dismantled the motor when the fault was still present, but couldn’t see any cracking or corrosion or anything like that. I suspect that the problem will re-appear at the least convenient time and then it’ll be time to buy a new washer.

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