Help Yourself First

[sparkey]

Re: Help Yourself First

kwatt wrote

Very odd Sparkey, admin@ is working fine

original mail + copy of bounce log sent to kwatt@, see what happens.

Regards
Sparkey

[kwatt]

Thanks, not appeared here yet but that server can take ten minutes or so to sort its brains out.

If it’s a real problem and it bounces send to my personal address, kwatt@funkycool.co.uk while I look into it as it will not bounce from that address unless there’s something really wrong with the internet.

K.

[RS]

Re: Help Yourself First

I can see why you are frustrated Ken but you have to understand that in this trade we have been pissed on from great heights by manufacturers and work providers alike. You are asking for a leap of faith from people who don’t know you, oh they like the site and the camaraderie of being in touch with other repairers throughout the country and some just want the combined technical knowledge that can be found on the site.

When you instigated the repairs@ it was a boon for anyone who wanted to join and involved no cost, but this project X thing you are asking people to signup to something that they know nothing about and no disrespect Ken but why should they trust you? All you have said about the project really adds up to nothing as far as the type of machine you are planning to produce so let me ask the questions and see how much you are willing to give out:

1. Is this a completely new machine or is it based on a standard model with alterations to your specs.
2. Is UKW fronting for a manufacturer or some other organisation or is this strictly a UKW project
3. Your job payments are very reasonable as one would expect from something involving UKW but what are your terms for BER’s.
4. Who will be administering the accounts?
5. Are you in partnership with anyone on this venture?
6. what are the predicted order to delivery times
7. What about spares prices? And where will they be ordered from
8. How easy will it be to return duff units?

As you know Ken I am no longer active in the trade but these are some of the questions I would want answering before I would even consider having anything to do with them.

This is nothing personal Ken I’m just once again playing the Devils advocate to bring out some of the things I think may be stopping people joining the project.

Richard Scanlon Snr

[kwatt]

Re: Help Yourself First

As ever, no offence taken Richard and as a quick fire answer session…

RS wrote:1. Is this a completely new machine or is it based on a standard model with alterations to your specs.

It is based on a production machine, we need certain volumes to make any significant changes.

RS wrote:2. Is UKW fronting for a manufacturer or some other organisation or is this strictly a UKW project

Strictly UKW project in conjunction with a couple of partners. We could not have pulled this off without some help. The ideas and concept is totally UKW.

RS wrote:3. Your job payments are very reasonable as one would expect from something involving UKW but what are your terms for BER’s.

BER’s should not be an issue given the five year parts warranty. However any exchanges will be looked at from a “common sense” standpoint.

RS wrote:4. Who will be administering the accounts?

Us.

RS wrote:5. Are you in partnership with anyone on this venture?

Yes, but I’m not saying who at this point in time for commercial reasons.

RS wrote:6. what are the predicted order to delivery times

3-5 days depending on the geographical area.

RS wrote:7. What about spares prices? And where will they be ordered from

Very reasonable, certainly nowhere near the silly prices we get from most traditional manufacturers. Ordered from us.

My personal target is to ensure that 80{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d}+ repairs cost under £100.

RS wrote:8. How easy will it be to return duff units?

Very, common sense prevails again.

RS wrote:This is nothing personal Ken I’m just once again playing the Devils advocate to bring out some of the things I think may be stopping people joining the project.

No problem, I’d rather the questions were asked. 😉

K.

[admin]

Re: Help Yourself First

Without answering any of your queries, please don’t confuse Kwatts frustrations with the lack of support for Project X.

So far we are in excess of 60{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} coverage of all UK postcodes, thats in two weeks, all down to the site and word of mouth. We will move into a new phase of our plan at the end of next week and all Repairs@ members have had a communication from us today.

All of your questions are easily answered and all of them will be specified to each agent as part of the agreement between UKW and the agent.

However just for now…

When Kwatt and I dreamed this up we specified an appliance we would like, one that had all the good bits from different manufacturers in one cabinett. We soon discovered that appliance manufacturing is another world to repairing them. However we made compromises to get to a point we could accept a prototype. Remember that the cabinett is not spec’d by us, the manufacturer designs the box, once a bosch always a bosch etc.

So whilst not completely new, the spec is at least 50{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of our original wish list.

This project is UKW’s, we dreamed it up, we spent hours weeks and months of our time into this project. We front for no one.
With 5 year parts warranty, all repairs are possible. BER should not really happen due to wear and tear. However where an appliance does not work, we will replace, no probs. However the appliance will be recovered by UKW to find out why, that allows us to monitor BER’s and to correct the “whys” of the BER.
Transit damage will again be investigated, whilst we will always look after the end user, careless delivery people will be found out.
All the administration of the appliance will be handled by us.
Yes, we have partners in this venture. The manufacturer and importer have invested heavily into our project, they now require us to succeed to claw back that investment. However Make no mistake, we are in total control of this appliance.
Delivery, in an imaginary box from Glasgow to Edinburgh, with London and Bristol as the four corners will be 2 or 3 days. However we have plans afoot to improve on this.

Spares will be ordered from UKW, pricing will be done by UKW also.

Duff units, no probs. But with our product support and technical back up these will be kept to a minimum.

Hope that goes some way to answering your questions, please ask whatever you like.

Kevin

[andy2]

Re: Help Yourself First

kwatt wrote:

And we have Repairs@ for which some of the more prolific members still haven’t filled out a form for to get FREE work, is that because you’re too lazy or do you just not want any more business?

K.

To be honest the reason why I have never commited to Repairs@ is simply because of the 12 month warranty requirement. I have no objection to a labour warranty of this length as the onus is upon me to do a good job (which I would endevour to do anyway). But I have not yet talked myself into accepting the liability for spare parts that in most cases are only warrantied by the supplier for six months (if your are lucky).

Maybe I am just being foolish but I have to admit that I can’t yet find in my heart a willingness to accept the responsabilty for a manufacturers lack of confidence in the quality of his own goods. This is’nt purely financial either, it is the principal involved.

Ok I am probably being stupid and should grit my teeth, raise my prices to cover the risk and join up but I would like to know if there are any others who feel this way.

Andy 🙁

[andy2]

Re: Help Yourself First

kheath wrote:Remember that the cabinett is not spec’d by us, the manufacturer designs the box, once a bosch always a bosch etc.

Yes, we have partners in this venture. The manufacturer and importer have invested heavily into our project,

Kevin

mmmmmmh……….!

[kwatt]

Re: Help Yourself First

To be perfectly honest, I’m struggling to recall the last “warranty” claim that we’ve had on a spare. We’ve had a few where a customer has a sink drainer above a Smeg DW or something of that ilk and spillage blows the board, but that’s easy spotted.

The biggest problem isn’t spares failing, it’s customers failing to understand that other things can go wrong after you visit.

K.

[Twoten]

Re: Help Yourself First

I would have signed up a while ago but there were a few elements of the agreement I disagreed with or felt I couldn’t conform to.

1) I agree with Andy2 regarding the guarantee. I accept you get very few parts that fail within the year but if it does it’s bound to be something expensive with very little margin leaving you with a loss.

2) Two million public liability insurance? I’m currently covered for 1 million and the agents I do work for don’t appear to have a problem with that. Am I under insured?

3) Messages left by customers to be answered within 1 working day?
Offer a call within 48 hours. Is this working hours? If not, if the call came in on a Friday afternoon I would not be able to attend until the following Monday. I am a sole trader and do not (or rather will not) work weekends. Also as a sole trader what happens when I decide to have a holiday. It wouldn’t be possible to comply with your charter.

Apart from the listed problems I already comply with the other requirements in some areas exceed them.

I think the idea is good and engineers will find it beneficial but I am a bit concerned that it’s going to generate calls were the customer has already ‘had a go’ and you know the problems you can walk into when that’s happened.

[kwatt]

Re: Help Yourself First

Warranty failures are inevitable and that should be built in to your pricing of a job. I fully realise that you may often have to lower the price to get teh call etc. but it does not in any way detract from the fact that if a customer to pursue it through legal routes then you’d probably loose and have to cough up anyway. Depends on what a judge thinks that day on what is a “reasonable” period. Any disclaimer to the contrary will not stand up in a court, I know I tested it.

So I would say that arguing over the warranty period, given the extremely low instances where it could be a problem and the fact that you’re pretty much saddled with it anyway, is a moot point.

£2 million of cover appears to be the norm these days with £5 million of cover for gas work.

As for holidays, that’s why we have a “holiday” feature on Repairs@ that allows you to state that you’re on holiday and switch it off for that period.

I think that Friday to Monday is considered one working day, I certainly consider it as such. And in respect of holidays I don’t think it’s unreasonable to change the message on the machine to reflect that as most of you will do when you’re on holiday anyway.

The charter is designed to be easy to comply with for any business, not to hinder you, but like most documents, some things are left a little “open” deliberately to ensure that that happens.

I do not think that the warranty thing is an issue really and, if you’re doing contract work you probably already supply a similar warranty at a far lower rate than for chargeable work.

I do not think that you’d get crucified for having a holiday.

I do think that the insurance thing, amount, should be clarified by the AC as they set that, not me, so kick it up to them to sort. I would have preffered the terminology of, “adequate cover for the services provided”. This should have meant >=£1 million normal work and in some cases >=5 million cover on some gas work.

K.

[andy2]

Re: Help Yourself First

If a warrantied part goes belly up and takes with it other parts are you liable for all the parts under the terms of the charter?

I ask because a week or two ago I attended a Zanussi see thread:-

http://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/modules.p … highlight=

It turns out that the motor fault destroyed two modules and an electronic pressure s/w. Now while this might have been a rare occurance at one time, in these days of very sensitive electronic controls I think it will happen more and more.

I think this needs clarifying. Andy

[kwatt]

And if you’d care to download the meeting magazine you’d notice that the charter had a little revision there. 😉

Charter Rev1 wrote:All parts & labour will be guaranteed for a minimum of 6 months from date of purchase. With the exception of one-shot safety devices, plastic parts or where the appliance has been subjected to misuse.

And no, you cannot be held responsible for one component failing and causing others to go and anyway, in an electronic machine when two components are faulty try proving which caused which to go. That’s a situation, regardless of how you appraoch it, that you’re in the brown stuff with the customer unless they happen to understand anyways.

I can just see a garage accepting a claim for a smash because a caliper failed a month after pads were fitted… NOT!

We only do it in some cases because all too often we’re too soft.

K.

[iadom]

Re: Help Yourself First

Regarding public liabilty insurance, I pay £110 per annum for £2 million cover. An amount I consider just about the best insurance premium to risk cover I have ever had compared to house, car, personal, sickness insurances etc. I’m with the Co-op 🙂

[andy2]

Re: Help Yourself First

Thanks Ken for making that clear.

Re: the warranty thats good news and i am sure that there will be many more than myself who are much happier with the revised terms, i will sign up asap if thats OK. I have never had a customer who was unhappy with the guarantee that I already offer:

Replacement parts warranty – is according to the terms of the suppliers and/or manufacturer – usually 180 days.

Labour warranty – minimum 90 days

In fact most are very happy to have a guarantee at all. Although I only specify 90 days labour minimium, this in practice always extends to equal the parts warranty.

Re: the liability insurance. I went from 1 million to 2 because one of my customers a ‘large manufacturer’ required it in there ‘contractor’ requirements and I think it cost me about £12 a year extra. I pay currently £86 with Fortis (Semploy).

Andy 😀

[leavemetogetonwithit]

Re: Help Yourself First

I’ve thought about signing up but have a couple of reservations.cf:
1. I only cover about 50 sq miles with a population of around 25,000. So is an extra £12 worth of insurance justified?(I’m with Semploy too). Does anyone from TR18/19/20 ever request? More than 4 jobs /year?(My current ad cost is about £3/new customer attracted).
2. I don’t have fax machine.
3. I don’t look at my e-mail every day.
I don’t imagine any customers would be seriously inconvenienced by these last two things but I’m not going to rush to make my life any more complicated. I like to keep things simple.

I wouldn’t have bothered you with these details but you asked why not everyone was rushing to sign up. 🙂

Oh, one more thing. I don’t think of this business as my life’s work. I hope one day to move to some sort of outdoor job. So when I’m not busy, I’m not too bothered because it gives me time to think about where I’m going. 🙂

[Author]

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