- This topic has 15 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 16 years ago by
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went to an ise5
not spinning
found half a sock and loads of fluff + hard water stuck in sump hose
being honest and well meaning chaps we cleared the sump and away we went
have now had the claim back saying it has been rejected
so in future it looks like we have to claim for parts that are not needed or we are working for nothingthere rant over but not happy
Re: honesty doesnt pay
should have charged the customer at the time. Send them an invoice now with a polite covering letter expaining the problem.
Re: honesty doesnt pay
Sadly its a customer misuse fault 99{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of the time, socks in outer drum & hoses almost always due to excessive overloading.. 😥
Hi
I advise the customer before going to the job what is covered under guarantee and what is not.Lots of the jobs you have a idea of the fault before going so for guarantee work I try to explain to the customer before OOB loads and blockages etc are not covered.
Its amazing how many customers solve it themselves when you say you may have to charge!
Re: honesty doesnt pay
don`t see how you can charge a customer when its the machine that has swallowed a sock which then gets stuck in the sump hose which the customer can`t clear themselves
and how do you prove they overload the machine when they tell you they dont even half fill the drumor is it ise pollicy for the customer to video there wash load each time to prove its not overfilled
Re: honesty doesnt pay
Hi petalpop,
The insurer has cracked down on this and, even stupid claims like “wire off pump” are being rejected. The thing is that these claims are being looked at by technical people these days and they know when the claim is, will we say, a bit not quite right. Generally what will flag stuff up is where the reported fault and the cure are at odds, questions will be asked.
However, that aside, the warranty that the customer gets clearly tells them what is covered and what is not covered and, where it’s not covered, it is chargeable to the customer.
Whether you choose to charge or not is entirely up to yourself of course but most companies won’t pay for user’s errors, misuse, stupidity or anything that is not related to a pukka fault.
This is the case for every appliance warranty I’ve ever come across, including extended warranties and almost every warranty on any other product you care to name, there are almost always exclusions.
If you start claiming parts that aren’t needed it will be treated as fraud by the insurer if you are caught, we have already had one instance of it where a dealer was claiming bogus service calls and excessive spares to boot. They have some very sophisticated systems in place to detect that sort of thing so I’m obviously going to tell you not to do it, the consequences aren’t worth it. And, again, this applies to a lot of contract work now, even DAG have cracked right down on spares useage.
The fact of it is that there’s a sock in the pump or sump hose.
Small items that can find their way there should be in a washbag or a pillow case, we all know that.
Or, as Jim rightly points out, the only other way that an object can be forced into that area is through overloading whether the customer likes that explanation or not, it is the truth of it.
The warranty states, quite clearly, that blockages by foreign objects are not covered.
So, in any event it’s down to the customer.
Sorry.
However I can tell you that approximately 95{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of all claims made against warranty go through with no issue.
K.
Re: honesty doesnt pay
kwatt wrote:Hi petalpop,
The warranty states, quite clearly, that blockages by foreign objects are not covered.
K.
Just got access to this forum so sorry if it is a bit old.I was under the impression that “foreign object” was something that should not be in the machine ie: money, jewellery, toys etc.
A sock is a legitimate item for a washing machine and surely it is the fault of the washer if the door seal is allowing this or other clothing to slip past. In 28 years I have never had a claim rejected for a sock in the sump hose.
Maybe petalpop should have renewed the door seal.
RobRe: honesty doesnt pay
Hi Rob et all,
I’m trying to be “diplomatic here” and I can’t say too much due to ongoing discussions…
The insurer is, shall we say, being a bit “difficult” with some claims. To the point where we’re having to pay the call even if we don’t get paid in some instances. But we can’t afford to do that on every occasion as we simply don’t have the cash to do it, we spent it all buying insurance that is supposed to cover these risks. And, if you read on you will understand (I hope) that we already finance a lot of the service work to a large extent to save the agents pain.
Basically, any reason to reject a call would, seemingly, be being seized on and used to justify a rejection.
This is hardly ideal and the reason for ongoing discussions.
The insurer changed (with no consultation and little notification with/to us) from AXA to UK Insurance who are, apparently, a division of the RBS. Since that happened there has been a total crackdown on what is or is not an acceptable claim.
I/we fight these rejections at every turn but it can often take months to sort out and, I do mean months. For example I have a pile of rejections, probably worth about £5K or so sat on my desk from 2009 and even in some cases from 2008 that we’re having to debate. Now, bear in mind that’s just one batch and every single call in that batch has been paid to the agents by ISE, a long time ago.
I am not happy in the extreme with the current state of affairs on this front.
What we think has happened is that, after the financial debacle of 2008/9 they’ve all been tasked with getting as much money as possible in from wherever and in whatever way that they can to cover the humungous losses that they all took. That means that insurers in general are looking to claw back cash, the easiest way to do that for them is to look for excuses not to pay claims.
All this is going off in the background and, for the most part, you don’t even know it’s going on as, so far as ISE is concerned, it’s not your problem.
It has however meant that some claims will be rejected as we just know that they are not going to be accepted. If you want us to re-submit them and await an outcome from the insurer then that’s absolutely fine and we can do that but, it could take more than a year to get an actual result on a resubmission.
In the meantime…
Please understand that we are generally paying claims WAY ahead of ISE being paid, in most cases more than six months ahead of us being paid. Again, not your problem, but I would ask that you cut us a little slack on the topic please as we are doing our level best to get calls authorised and paid as quickly as we possibly can. This process is not being helped at all by the insurer at present.
This costs us money, a lot of money, to finance the service ahead of actually being paid and, then we have to suffer rejections for very often stupid reasons IMO. So trust me, it hacks us off as much if not more than it hacks you guys off and I can assure you it’s a shedload more money we’re out than a couple of calls.
This situation has been wrecking my life for the past few weeks and a large part of why I’ve been so quiet. Had I not held myself in check I would have gone totally off on one over this as I’m raging mad about some of it. I will not stand to have the repairers put in the firing line, it’s just not right.
So, some of the cr4p that the insurer has come up with has angered me just a tad. Like they want to reduce payments to the engineers as they say it’s costing too much, they want to reduce spares prices, they want to handle all the calls and so on. But this is what we’re having to battle at the backend of all this. I’m sure you can imagine my reactions to such suggestions.
Due to this we are looking at other ways and we will be discussing this at the UKW meeting in September as we are desperately unhappy about some of the stuff that’s being kicked back. I would urge you to get there if you can.
What it has proved in many ways, is that the notion of having the product insured is a nice one, the reality of it is not perhaps quite as rosy a picture as is sold. The only party that stands to win and, the odds are as usual stacked in their favour, are insurers and bankers.
K.
Re: honesty doesnt pay
Thanks for the explanation Ken.
The truth is none of us out here actually know what goes on behind the scenes at ISE or any manufacturers so that is an insight well worth noting.
Thanks again.
RobRe: honesty doesnt pay
One reason why I like a mobile phone with a decent camera. I always take a photograph on any ISE call that I feel has even the slightest chance of being called into question.
I have some very nice pictures of the single failed motor brush assy from an AW23 call I did yesterday. 😉
Jim.
Re: honesty doesnt pay
Thanks guys, the support we get from you all is much appreciated, make no mistake about that. And, it’s painful at times having to reject calls, TBH I hate doing it unless someone is really taking the “Mick”.
I have to look at some calls and I know that it’s not the truth. The only reason it isn’t the truth is that if you told the truth it’d get kicked back. In my book, that’s not entirely right as many of the repairers are perfectly able to take a view on whether or not to charge for misuse or just because the customer’s being a tube and gets all shirty when you tell them it’s their fault. I do get it… been there… got the t-shirt and scars. I also know a genuine claim when I see one.
Problem is that certain “bankers” (feel free to play on the word) think otherwise. But then, they don’t have to climb in a van, lug a toolbox into a house treading on eggshells, walking on air and smiling while about it make the customer happy. They simply sit remotely and tell the actual guy on the ground how to do their job, even if they don’t know one end of a screwdriver from another.
It is frustrating having to deal with such plonkers at times.
It’d be funny for me or, at the very least, moderately amusing if they weren’t tying up huge sums of MY money bu66ering me, you and anyone else they can about to save a few sheckles here and there.
It’s really nice that we work with the repairers as much as we possibly can, we do all we can and a lot of you know that. We’ve worked really, really hard to try to give the repairers their own brand and to act in the most honourable way that we can with honesty and integrity.
It’s precisely the opposite when you get the cr4p I’ve been getting for the past few months from people that think they can simply dictate terms and we’ll just roll over and accept them.
Some have not quite appreciated the abbreviated response that they have had to such demands as previously detailed from myself, John and Sean. Short of asking them to form a sentence from three words, two being “right” and “off” we couldn’t be much closer to absolute crystal clarity.
As you can perhaps tell, suits are not exactly “up there” on my Christmas card list this year. 😉
K.
Re: honesty doesnt pay
starting to get my goat this
so you pay out most claims even if the insurance company wont pay
apart it would seem the one i send 👿
the machine is stuck full of water with half a load in it so not overloaded
as far as i knew if a machine swallowed a sock it would be covered
are we supposed to phone and ask if each job will be covered
taking up the phone line,the person answering the phones time
seems a bit backward to me
but what do i knowin another thread i mentioned another machine which i removed a bra wire from the tub and charged the customer
Re: honesty doesnt pay
No, petalpop it’s not that straightforward sadly.
If you and/or the customer reads the T&Cs on the back of every warranty certificate it is clearly stated that any blockage is NOT covered. This has been the case since day one. The reason that this is in force is that 99.99{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of all blockages, as you will know, are down to the customer, end of.
The general rule of thumb being that, if there isn’t an issue with the seal, usually caused by wear/overloading and excessive wear caused by that, then small items should be in a wash bag, end of chat. If small items then find their way into the pump then is that the fault of the machine?
We have some latitude when the machine’s warranty is under our control, we have none when it is not as every call is sent to the insurer as it is raised with the fault reported etc.
As I said though, if you want me to resubmit the call I’m more than happy to do so.
K.
Re: honesty doesnt pay
I.S.E are the only manufacturer i know that actually writes down whats not covered so it’s plane and simple for the customer and makes it so easy to charge for socks etc. If a customer rings with a “no drain” we dont even ring ise as its always blocked so no point wasting time ringing when it’s going to be chargable anyway and you get your money there and then. Brill!
Re: honesty doesnt pay
I had a difficult decision to make last week. A CI555WH over four years old, never had a call out to it.
Complaint was machine not taking fabric conditioner. The top of the dispenser was completely clogged.
Had I sent in a job sheet saying that I had cleaned out the top of the dispenser my guess is that would have stood a good chance of a rejection.
Even though you have to remove the console facia and PCB plus three hoses to get the compartment out to clean it properly.
due to the age of the machine I took along a set of brushes and upon inspection they had literally a few weeks left in them so I changed those at the same time.
In retrospect I have saved the insurers a second call out fee a month or so down the line but I did wonder what would have happened had I just put ‘cleaned dispenser’ on the jobsheet?
Jim.
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