Hoover Logic 1300E (A3764-301) not spinning

[Autolycus]

Set it to either of the spin-only start points (G or N); the initial clicking round takes place; the spin light comes on; the pump pumps, the drum rotates (around 50 rpm); the timer runs (orange/grey side continuously, other periodically). Starting at N, it also stops briefly a couple of times, then re-starts. And that’s it. 4-5 minutes later it stops, timer at the white dot. I’ve moved it away from its plumbing temporarily, so I’ve not tried a full wash programme.

So far, I’ve swapped the motor for a known good one (newish brushes, clean commutator); fitted an exchange timer (from EMW Electronics); and checked the plastic bottle of the level sensor. The drum mounted microswitch shows as closed when measured from the terminals at the PCB end.

So what’s left? The level pressure switch gives two clicks at different pressures, but I don’t know what all its terminals do to enable me to check its electrical performance. What measurements can I take to verify that the motor control board is working correctly? Or what else should I check?

I know it’s an old machine, and if I was paying to have it fixed, or even valued my own time at anything more than coppers per hour, I’d give up and buy a new one. But I’m an awkward old sod, and mending things is what I do. When I have necessary information.

Help!

Thanks.

[Martin]

Re: Hoover Logic 1300E (A3764-301) not spinning

Autolycus wrote:So what’s left? The level pressure switch gives two clicks at different pressures, but I don’t know what all its terminals do to enable me to check its electrical performance.

I’m pretty sure on this machine it is a 3 level pressure switch? So there should be 3 clicks I reckon? 😉 New Pressure Switch looks a likely solution?

[Autolycus]

Re: Hoover Logic 1300E (A3764-301) not spinning

Thanks for the quick reply, which prompted me to look properly at the pressure switch.

It is a three stage one, and all three stages seem to work: with no pressure applied 11 connects to 12, 21 to 22, 31 to 32 (which has no cable to it).

At stage 1 pressure, 11 changes over to 13, 21 and 31 unchanged.

At stage 2 pressure, 21 changes over to 23 (no cable)

At stage 3 pressure, 31 changes over to 33.

All seems very reasonable, and all contact resistances seem low enough (<0.2R on a DVM).

Sorry if I misled with my first post. Any more ideas, please?

[Martin]

Re: Hoover Logic 1300E (A3764-301) not spinning

Autolycus wrote:Any more ideas, please?

For what it costs and the obvious trouble you are going to so far I’d replace that Pressure switch! 😉

I guess you’ve tried running the machine on spin only with the air hose disconnected?

I’d also look very carefully at the OOB microswitch terminals on the tub backplate ( you’ve checked them once….check then again?)

[Autolycus]

Re: Hoover Logic 1300E (A3764-301) not spinning

Martin wrote:

For what it costs and the obvious trouble you are going to so far I’d replace that Pressure switch!

Since I’m concentrating on trying to get it to spin, and there won’t be any water in it till I do, I could try bridging it.

Martin wrote:
I guess you’ve tried running the machine on spin only with the air hose disconnected?

Not exactly that, but I did check that the switch contacts were in the “rest” position before turning the machine on. I don’t suppose it’s the change of water level, rather than the absence of water, that triggers the start of the spin is it?

Martin wrote:
I’d also look very carefully at the OOB microswitch terminals on the tub backplate ( you’ve checked them once….check then again?)

Am I right in thinking the switch should be closed when the drum is at rest or rotating smoothly? If so, for testing purposes, I could make up a shorting link at the motor control board end.

I can see myself having to make a break-out box so I can monitor whether there are changes to the inputs to the control board as the timer goes through its not-spinning programme – and then the same thing for its output to the motor. Is the data on what should happen available anywhere on the web? Manuals and circuit diagrams for most stuff seems to be – if you know where.

How do these boards fail, usually? EMW do them for about £20, so that may be worth a try if it’s not the OOB switch or the pressure switch.

Thanks again to anyone troubling to read my ramblings.

[suedehead1]

Re: Hoover Logic 1300E (A3764-301) not spinning

hi,
you seem to have gone to a lot of trouble i have been a hoover agent for 18 years i have no idea what contacts do what on the pressure switch.
i normally blow into it if it clicks 3 times its working.
as far as i can remember if the p/s was faulty or if the p/s tube was blocked the machine would switch itself off before the end of the program.
its most likely to be the speed control module.
thats the wee pcb in the bottom of the machine.
dont loose that wee spring clip when you take it off and make sure you dont mix up the 2 wires on top.
there is not normally any visible problems with it but sometimes the big resistor at the top can become slack but this gives no drum action.
the oob switch normally is ok but the wires going to it are known to break where they attach to the cabinet or switch housing.
oh and make sure the plugs out first.

[Autolycus]

Re: Hoover Logic 1300E (A3764-301) not spinning

Thanks for the further help.

The OOB switch has a slightly higher resistance than I’d like (without knowing what sort of voltage it sees) at about 2R, but bridging it, and checking the wires to it) made no difference.

suedehead1 wrote:
its most likely to be the speed control module.

I’ve ordered one from EMW.

oh and make sure the plugs out first.

Ho yuss. I also loosely knot the flex round something on the machine, as an easy re-assurance that it’s unplugged and to stop me plugging it in by mistake.

I’ll report back.

[Martin]

Re: Hoover Logic 1300E (A3764-301) not spinning

Autolycus wrote:I’ll report back.

Please do, I’ve got money riding on this 🙂 😉

[Autolycus]

Re: Hoover Logic 1300E (A3764-301) not spinning

Replacement module from EMW arrived and fitted: no change. Still no spin.

It’s going to be a bit extreme to buy an identical but working machine to find out what voltages should appear where, and when, but I’m running out of alternatives…

The boss will kill me when she finds out I’ve spent fifty-odd quid with nowt to show for it.

[Martin]

Re: Hoover Logic 1300E (A3764-301) not spinning

Autolycus wrote:I’ve not tried a full wash programme.

I guess you still haven’t tried that yet? Or checked the heater insulation?

My money’s on that Pressure switch still 😉

[Autolycus]

Re: Hoover Logic 1300E (A3764-301) not spinning

Martin wrote:

Autolycus wrote:
I’ve not tried a full wash programme.

I guess you still haven’t tried that yet?

Well, I have now: and it all worked: it even spun when it should have done. And I cannot think of anything different from its setup an hour before when it had utterly refused to spin.

And they call it the “Logic”. Or is it really clever enough to think it can’t be empty unless it’s previously been full? Surely not?

Or checked the heater insulation?

I’ve done that now, too. Barely a twitch on the megger.

My money’s on that Pressure switch still 😉

Well, it could be an intermittent fault, or that it’s working, but at the wrong pressure when in the dropping direction. I’m a bit reluctant to twiddle the setting screws without some nominal switching pressures to check it against. Once more, back to the lack of basic servicing data.

Wrong forum, probably, but is this sort of data (and wiring diagrams, switching sequences, test voltages, and so on) available to mugs like me for any washing machines? Presumabaly it is for the ISE?

Thanks once more for the help: it’s kept me going. I’ll put it all back together now and see if it still works.

[Martin]

Re: Hoover Logic 1300E (A3764-301) not spinning

Autolycus wrote:Wrong forum, probably, but is this sort of data (and wiring diagrams, switching sequences, test voltages, and so on) available to mugs like me for any washing machines? Presumabaly it is for the ISE?

Ah those were the days when Hoover produced service manuals etc etc. Haynes do a washing mahine book that’s very helpful but doesn’t cater for individual wiring diagrams, sequence charts and such like. There are a few old manuals chucking about, I have one gathering dust in my garage somewhere?

But it’s all classed as TRADE ONLY these days and we’re not allowed to impart such information lest you electricute yourself or burn the house down or both. 😯

Sorry! 🙁

Autolycus wrote: Thanks once more for the help: it’s kept me going. I’ll put it all back together now and see if it still works.

Fingers crossed. 😀

[Andystu]

Re: Hoover Logic 1300E (A3764-301) not spinning

Just as an after thought,(its quite a while since ive seen one of the proper made hoover machines). Seem to remember problems with tacho connections on wiring harness to motor! Try crimping the connections on motor plug and wiring harness to motor plug! Also check that wiring harness isn’t damaged where it clips underneath concrete block! Probably goes without saying, but i’ll say it anyway, make sure there is no power on when crimping connections.

Andy Stuart

[Autolycus]

Re: Hoover Logic 1300E (A3764-301) not spinning

Thanks to Andy for some more ideas – stored ready for the next time.

After running a full wash programme instead of just starting it at either of the Spin positions effected the magic cure, I established that it was working fine even on the Spin positions.

But earlier, it hadn’t worked, even with the new module. So I tried putting the old module back, and it still worked fine – and has continued doing for the last week.

So what was the problem? The few ohms I measured across the contacts of the OOB switch perhaps? Or a bad connection at one of the plugs? The module had been unplugged and re-plugged several times, the timer many times, and the motor a couple of times, and it had malfunctioned with both motors I’d tried, which makes anything on the motor side of the tacho connections a less likely culprit.

There was no obvious harness damage, so we’re left with “Bad connection somewhere” as the only likely cause.

So we’re back to the fact that finding it would have been far easier, and probably overall safer, if I’d had full schematics to work from. It’s easy for makers to shelter behind “Elf and Safety”, but I suspect pure protectionism: it protects makers like Miele from their service agents being undercut by equally competent independents – or indeed competent amateurs, as I hope I am; and it promotes sales of new, dismal-quality machines that will dump the owner in just the same position in a couple of years.

I am amazed that with the current emphasis on whole-life energy costs and the problems of end-of-life disposal, makers can still get away with it.

Thanks again to all who responded.

[Author]

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